Ok, just tell me Why

[DaveMage]

You're new here, so you might want to consider getting a Community Supporter account just so you can use the Search feature - you'll see that every single point you've made has been brought up over and over again since 4E was announced. And even before, with regards to 3E.

He's been here for 5 years.

 

[theredrobedwizard]

He's been here for 5 years.

Then he *really* needs a Community Supporter Account.

-TRRW

 

[Zil]

Did you get this from the AD&D 1st ed MM? I can't really remember at the moment, but "socio/anthro" hooks are not the first thing that comes to mind concerning the monsters in the original MM either. Nor any greater meaning to their existence.
/M

I just took a look at one of my old AD&D monster manuals and there indeed is more flavour text and ecology information there than you find for most of the 4E entries. I think they added even more with the 2E monster manual (or at least gave it its own section so it stood out more). 4E seems to have quite a bit less descriptive text than the often maligned AD&D MM had.

So I'd have to agree with the poster who said there is less information on the society/anthropology or ecological niche that a monster filled in the 4E MM than in the old 1E manual.

Edit: Just looked at the 4E MM a bit more and I think there is more ecology fluff there than at first glance for many entries. You just need to pay attention to the "Lore" sections. For some reason, they kind of get lost for me. Suppose I'll get used to the new layout in time. That said, I'm not sure which MM has more ecology information.

 

[Ripzerai]

I hate books that give lots of social or racial backgrouns, because then the writeups reflect that, and maybe I don't want the Orcs in my world to behave that way, and have that background.

I love 4th for giving that stuff back to the GM.

First of all, 4th edition's three core books contain a much more specific assumed world than the three main 3rd edition core books did. In earlier editions tieflings were beings who vaguely had fiendish blood, while in 4e they're descendants of the noble caste of the fallen empire of Bael Turath. The 4e MM has specific creation myths for beings like giants, the dragon deities, angels, an elaborate description of the Nine Hells - a lot more campaign-specific detail than any previous Monster Manual had. It specifically tells us that humans have no great empires, and hobgoblins had a kingdom which is now destroyed, and halflings all live on rivers.

So, what I think you meant to say was "I hate 4th for taking that stuff away from the GM."

More importantly, though, is the fact that that stuff has always been and continues to be ultimately in the DM's hands no matter what the book says. Would you rather tieflings had a different origin, or that humans and hobgoblins had vast empires that still exist in the present day? Change it. The existence of copious amounts of flavor text does nothing to limit your own creativity, but it certainly can inspire it, either to build upon it or to introduce variations.

More flavor text is thus nearly always a good thing.

Now. That said, the 2nd edition books still set the record for most amount of detail on habit/society/ecology in their entries, but most of this is very generic and not specific to any particular world. 4th edition may give slightly less detail in total than 2e (but generally more than 1e, I think), but the kind of detail is much more specific to a particular assumed cosmology and in-game history.

 

[Mistwell]

Why? Maybe because WoTC doesn't want to see D&D go the way of comics: an industry dominated by an aging entrenched fanbase who want to relive the same period of their lives over and over again. They don't want the tail to wag the dog.

Not to drift too far off topic, but I find your characterization of the comics industry to be stunningly inaccurate. With one of my most important clients being the top comics news site in the world, I see the small detail numbers of the industry just about every week. The idea that comics is trending to "reliving the same period of their lives over and over again" is just in no way accurate. That industry has reinvented itself so many times in recent years that it now is pretty close to being on the opposite end of the spectrum from what you describe, and it's massive profit margins and growth in recent years reflects some of that.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

I personally quite like the new MM.

-The artwork is wonderful.
-I love the stat-boxes
-I love having a variety of monsters of the same kind.
-It is nice having more control over the fluff, especially given that the fluff is mainly just DC Lore checks and as such simply show the amount of knowledge that be gained with a successful Lore check, so is easily changeable.
-It is just all around, much easier to use and DM.

As for overall fluff, I find it much less overpowering, yes there is some fluff, but it is much more casual and "soft", in that it is there but has no great big mechanical influence.

 

[glass]

Why would you play this bizarre hybrid of magic the gathering and talisman…

First, from what I have seen so far, D&D 4e bears absolutes not resemblance to a 'bizarre hybrid of Magic:The Gathering and Talisman'.

Second, a 'bizarre hybrid of Magic:The Gathering and Talisman' would be excellent!


glass.

 

[pemerton]

a 'bizarre hybrid of Magic:The Gathering and Talisman' would be excellent!

ICE's old CCG, "Middle Earth: The Wizards", sort-of fits this description.

 

[pawsplay]

Not to drift too far off topic, but I find your characterization of the comics industry to be stunningly inaccurate. With one of my most important clients being the top comics news site in the world, I see the small detail numbers of the industry just about every week. The idea that comics is trending to "reliving the same period of their lives over and over again" is just in no way accurate. That industry has reinvented itself so many times in recent years that it now is pretty close to being on the opposite end of the spectrum from what you describe, and it's massive profit margins and growth in recent years reflects some of that.

Not only that, but many lines have been revitalized by going back to the well... Ultimates, retro style comics inpsired by the DC cartoons, postmodern stuff like Astro City and Invincible, etc.

 

[That One Guy]

A lot of your beefs are tastes. Nobody'll take them away. I think playing 4e will be fun for you if you give it a chance, and I hope it is/you do. That said, I dig the earthbinding effect because it makes me think that the tarrasque emits its own field of gravity. That's such an awesome image in my mind that I cannot help but like the tarrasque more than before.

(Which is to say I never ran one in a game and now I think it'd be a nice end game boss fight)