Wicht
Hero
How about Piratecat? "Huh. I just depressed myself. I play 4e and love it, but to me this is definitely the low rumbling of distant thunder."
Ok, now i'm REALLY CONFUSED. AKA, do any of you think you know what WotC is doing?
- Thread starter Aberzanzorax
- Start date
How about Piratecat? "Huh. I just depressed myself. I play 4e and love it, but to me this is definitely the low rumbling of distant thunder."
Chainsaw Mage
First Post
You're griping about "aging 20-40 year olds". Umm, okay.
Aren't *all* 20-40 year olds aging? Just by definition?
I mean, even my eight-year-old daughter is aging.
Just sayin'.
Chainsaw Mage
First Post
That ain't literal. It's personification. Just sayin'.
Olgar Shiverstone
Legend
Clearly the answer is collectible feat, spell, power, and item cards. Release a preview online, sell in the mass market, then sell a roll up in book format 1-2 years later.
(I keed, I keed ... I hope).
<--BREAK-->
Now about Paizo and D&D, if I'm allowed a little speculative fiction, here's what I'd see happening if WotC sold or liensed D&D to Paizo:
- Paizo would pause and take stock.
- They'd develop a new version of D&D to release.
- The new D&D might be Pathfinder 2.0, it might be a development of 4E, or it might be something with a different direction.
In any event, I think Paizo can do a better job with the IP that is D&D. Why? Because frankly, I think their track record to date with products reveals that they simply respect D&D more as a brand, they love its history, and they aren't so bogged down with corporate politics that they can't both maintain brand identity and put out profitable products (and frankly as a smaller company I think their expectations for profit and growth would be lower, which might be better for D&D the RPG as a niche product line rather than as the step-sibling to M:tG at WotC).
I'm not saying the designers at WotC don't love D&D, but I have more trust in the team at Paizo that they can stay true to the soul of D&D while still keeping it relevant and vibrant.
(I keed, I keed ... I hope).
<--BREAK-->
Now about Paizo and D&D, if I'm allowed a little speculative fiction, here's what I'd see happening if WotC sold or liensed D&D to Paizo:
- Paizo would pause and take stock.
- They'd develop a new version of D&D to release.
- The new D&D might be Pathfinder 2.0, it might be a development of 4E, or it might be something with a different direction.
In any event, I think Paizo can do a better job with the IP that is D&D. Why? Because frankly, I think their track record to date with products reveals that they simply respect D&D more as a brand, they love its history, and they aren't so bogged down with corporate politics that they can't both maintain brand identity and put out profitable products (and frankly as a smaller company I think their expectations for profit and growth would be lower, which might be better for D&D the RPG as a niche product line rather than as the step-sibling to M:tG at WotC).
I'm not saying the designers at WotC don't love D&D, but I have more trust in the team at Paizo that they can stay true to the soul of D&D while still keeping it relevant and vibrant.
UnknownAtThisTime
First Post
True Story:
True Story:
I used WotC's online communication method to send an enquiry to Bill Slaviscek. I put his name in the subject and body field. I wanted to let him know my opinion on some of the things he'd recently announced. I received the auto confirm that my enquiry was sent.
A day later, I received a response from a person that indicated my communication was being forwarded to the "Magic the Gathering Online Team" for resolution.
True Story:
I used WotC's online communication method to send an enquiry to Bill Slaviscek. I put his name in the subject and body field. I wanted to let him know my opinion on some of the things he'd recently announced. I received the auto confirm that my enquiry was sent.
A day later, I received a response from a person that indicated my communication was being forwarded to the "Magic the Gathering Online Team" for resolution.
I can't think of any way Pathfinder is interesting beyond being That Version of D&D You Liked Before They Stopped Making It, But Improved. That's basically the whole deal. Golarion uses the same paint-by-numbers development style that diluted Eberron into boredom.
Going (to nick one example) "We'll have a sword and planet Mars tribute!" and designing just enough of that to tick something off on a checklist flies with hardcore fans who are primarily interested in recognizing the references, but not with people who may look at the setting with an eye toward the intrinsic instead of the referential. This doesn't mean the designers are bad, but the development process isn't capable of supporting the step *after* homage.
With respect, I think you're confusing a one-sentence description of a planet in a world book, or even a two-paragraph description of same in an article in a Pathfinder AP volume with the sum total Paizo will ever do with the Red Planet, which would be a huge mistake.
We're in it for the long haul. Just because we make an off-hand reference to something once doesn't mean we're done talking about it, or that that one sentence conveys all the depth a given concept might get over the course of the campaign setting's life.
I also think you're guilty of a little hyperbole on the campaign setting issue in general, though I think a lot of your other observations are quite astute. To wit: There is a middle ground between doing "no setting," or a setting that is so light on detail that it might as well not exist, and doing six or seven concurrent campaign settings, all of which lack distinction from one another.
I don't know if the 1990s Dark Sun stole customers or sales dollars away from the Forgotten Realms, for example, but I have a hard time understanding why, from a business perspective, a company would concurrently support Greyhawk, the Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, and Birthright. Those settings _do_ poach off customers from one another, and I think the profusion of mutually exclusive, superficially identical campaign settings was one of many elements that eventually led to the doom of TSR.
It's not an either/or proposition.
--Erik
We're in it for the long haul. Just because we make an off-hand reference to something once doesn't mean we're done talking about it, or that that one sentence conveys all the depth a given concept might get over the course of the campaign setting's life.
I also think you're guilty of a little hyperbole on the campaign setting issue in general, though I think a lot of your other observations are quite astute. To wit: There is a middle ground between doing "no setting," or a setting that is so light on detail that it might as well not exist, and doing six or seven concurrent campaign settings, all of which lack distinction from one another.
I don't know if the 1990s Dark Sun stole customers or sales dollars away from the Forgotten Realms, for example, but I have a hard time understanding why, from a business perspective, a company would concurrently support Greyhawk, the Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, and Birthright. Those settings _do_ poach off customers from one another, and I think the profusion of mutually exclusive, superficially identical campaign settings was one of many elements that eventually led to the doom of TSR.
It's not an either/or proposition.
--Erik
Glade Riven
Adventurer
If Paizo were liscensed to create D&D 5e, I would expect them to try their hand at something different, such as creating a whole brand new system rather than adapting Pathfinder or cleaning up 4e.
Actually, I expect Paizo to create a completely new RPG system once creating more content for Pathfinder starts seeing diminishing returns (and it will, eventually - all things do). By then, their industry cred would guarentee that people would check it out, and with their corporate culture geared towards making quality products (plus connecting with fans) I expect it to be a success. Since Paizo's bread and butter is Adventure Paths and assorted accessories, the new system may even be released under OLG.
Actually, I expect Paizo to create a completely new RPG system once creating more content for Pathfinder starts seeing diminishing returns (and it will, eventually - all things do). By then, their industry cred would guarentee that people would check it out, and with their corporate culture geared towards making quality products (plus connecting with fans) I expect it to be a success. Since Paizo's bread and butter is Adventure Paths and assorted accessories, the new system may even be released under OLG.
You know, I find Paizo pretty impressive in some ways. It's too bad that I loathe 3.x with unbridled hatred, because it would be really cool to be a customer of such an excellent company.
GreyLord
Legend
Sorry if I disagree on this one.
Actually, I don't think it was the concurrent support of those Campaign settings...or more specifically any overlap between Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance. If campaign settings had anything to do with it, it was more the support of campaign settings that were popular by fanatics of a setting...but those fanatics were small in number...hence the sales didn't justify the support. Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms were both big sellers in campaigns...and even more so with books and fiction...well...at least until some drastic changes occurred. Even then they still sold.
Areas that didn't sell as well...such as Spelljammer (no offense meant towards the fans), or Birthright (once again no offense to the fans) and perhaps even Planescape (yes, once again no offense intended towards the fans), or at least not as well as the more generic and epic settings such as Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms are Far more likely to have caused any financial woes in that regard. The more imaginative the setting was in some ways...had less appeal in the general audience...both in terms of RPG sales...and more specifically in Novel sales.
However, I would say there were far more areas that were being concentrated on that didn't bring in ANY money...or so little it was draining coffer pots (for example...IN MY OPINION...Buck Rogers anyone) that did far more damage...no matter how much I may like some of them now.
