OK so level adjustment +2 or more is really a bad deal!

[Sir ThornCrest]

Again our group is trying out a evil campaign (anti hero) and some of the players have disploayed interests in being half fiend especially. Back when I thought it's cost was a +2 level adjustment the players were debating if it was worth it or not, in our current 10th level campaign. But now I found out it is a +4 level adjustment no one interested at all, not even humoring the idea....all 5 players rejected it within seconds....

Has anyone played a half celestial or half fiendish pc, at the +4 level adjustment? Was it willingly done or did the DM force it on you as part of your life path/pc history?

whats your thoughts on the level adjustment templates?

Thorn Crest

 

[BiggusGeekus]

I played an ogre wizard-2 in a level 6 group.

I was pretty hot stuff. But I was balanced for that level. I'd cast mage armor then jump around and do my bashy-bashy thing, occasionally lobbing a magic missile if needed. When my character died, I refused raise dead. The character was fun at level 6, but I knew that I would quickly fall behind the power curve.

I am pretty much against anything other than +1 ECL. You just fall behind in hit points and/or saving throws.

 

[Zappo]

I know I'll be shot for this, but I think that exotic races (a category which currently includes all LA races) should be a bit weaker than common races. That makes it a bit more likely that players will pick these races because they like the concept, rather than because of the pretty numbers.

 

[Crothian]

I know I'll be shot for this, but I think that exotic races (a category which currently includes all LA races) should be a bit weaker than common races. That makes it a bit more likely that players will pick these races because they like the concept, rather than because of the pretty numbers.

no shooting here....I played the SAint template and at +2 it actually might have been too good. But for most of them, they really are not worth it. Its the lach of options you get.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

no shooting here....I played the SAint template and at +2 it actually might have been too good. But for most of them, they really are not worth it. Its the lach of options you get.

Well, the Saint has a deliberately lowerLA at +2 than it 'should'. Its the reward for achieving Sainthood.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I know I'll be shot for this, but I think that exotic races (a category which currently includes all LA races) should be a bit weaker than common races. That makes it a bit more likely that players will pick these races because they like the concept, rather than because of the pretty numbers.

Nah, I absolutely agree.

 

[Sir ThornCrest]

what is the saint template?

could you give some brief description of the saint?

ThornCrest

no shooting here....I played the SAint template and at +2 it actually might have been too good. But for most of them, they really are not worth it. Its the lach of options you get.

 

[Slobber Monster]

Hmmm...

A CL 5 Half-fiend Human Fighter 1 has a BAB of +1, but gets +4 to strength and dex so then net is really always 2 behind a normal human fighter. The half-fiend fighter is also 3 feats behind, but in turn gets flight, darkvision, natural armor, SR, DR, great resistances, Smite Good, and the ability to cast Darkness 3/day. The human fighter has 4d10 + (con mod x 4) more HP's, which is pretty big. Overall I'd say the Half-fiend at this point has weaker damage-dealing capability, but is a very tough nut to crack. However, anything that does get through its defenses is likely to take it out with its low HP's and inferior Fort save.

As levels progress the Half-fiend stays the same amount behind in AB, HP's (though his +2 con bonus helps a little), and Feats. He does get a few more nice spell-like abilities like Unholy Blight, Poison, and Horrid Wilting. Its spell resistance goes up with every level, which is nice. DR goes up at CL 16, which is a bit late. Resistances do not go up at all, which probably should be changed since energy resistance 10 is not worth much at CL 20.

Overall I'd say it makes a viable, if slightly weeker melee type. For spellcasters it's much too expensive, but that tends to be true for LA's in general.

 

[painandgreed]

whats your thoughts on the level adjustment templates?

We're playing a campaign right now where everybody has a LA race. We have a half-feind, a pixie, and some other stuff. None of us are relaly having nay issues with our characters. We even had a human mage but he switched out for a LA race character. It's all about the special abilities. They allow you to do stuff that normal PCs could never do. With my pixie, I have damage resistance, flight, and improved invisiblity. My play is way different than if I had a normal character and there's no way a normal character could do what I'm doing now. Even though we're 8th level and I'm only a fighter 2/rogue 1, I don't feel underpowered. Few things can even damage me and I can fly around while invisible and shoot arrows. Even though he only does 1d4 damage, due to his DR, he's been able to hold his own against some pretty tough monsters despite low HP and the longer combats needed to defeat them. The place where LA really hurts seems to be spell casters as it really eats away at spells where other things like BAB and HP are usually made up by increased stats. in the end, it looks like we're going to be a high level party with no spell casters. Just several rogues with Use Magic Device and lots of potions and wands.

 

[hexgrid]

Right now I'm runnung a game with three PCs, each of which is a half-celestial with 10 class levels. This was the idea from the beginning, though.

I said "Make 10th level characters, and then add the half-celestial template for free," and everyone thought it was a pretty cool idea.

However, if I had said "Make 14th level characters- and if you want you can give up four of your class levels to take the half-celestial template," there would have been no half-celestials in the game.