OK so level adjustment +2 or more is really a bad deal!

[ThirdWizard]

I think that rule works if whatever it is actually reinforces your class. I think that a level 2 fighter ogre mage would be decent. I think the same thing as a rogue would be awful (in this particular case, fighter is meant to mean "someone who's prime focus is fighting" and rogue is "skillmonkey").

Good point!

When figuring out what goes with what, something similar to the monster assocaited levels might help in detrmining what goes with what (MM pg. 294). The larger the LA or creature HD that your choice has, the more it will hinder your character. Fey type have +6 skill points/level whereas Giants have +2 skill points/level, so a skill based character is better off taking something of the Fey type, for example, with HD being equal between the two choices. But, if you're going for a front line fighter, giants have a better BAB and HD size. It's a big balancing act.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Where'd you read that?

Book of Exalted Deeds page 29:

"...the character sacrifices her next two levels of advancement to 'catch up' with the (artificially low) level adjustment of the template..."

 

[Endur]

Half-Fiend is worth +4 LA

Half-Fiend is definitely worth a +4 LA. I'd happily play a Half-Fiend (or Half-Celestial) in any campaign where the character was at least level 4 (+4 LA).

For a character that is level 10, half fiend would be a level 6 character.
I think this template works best for a barbarian.

Half-Fiend(+4 str, +4 dex, +2 con, +4 int, +2 chr)
Spell-like Abilities: Darkness 3/day, Desecrate 1/day, Unholy Blight 1/day
Immune to Poison
Resist 10 to Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire
DR 5/magic
SR 16
3 attacks: Bite 1d6, Claw 1d4 (x2) + strength bonus
Claws and Bite treated like magic weapons for DR purposes.
Smite Good: +6 damage 1/day
+1 natural ac
fly at normal move speed (average maneuvability)
Type Outsider (immune to "person" spells)

You can build a nasty half-orc, half-fiend barbarian who can shred people with three natural attacks a round, each doing double digit damage.

Don't overlook the huge impact of FLIGHT.

 

[Arkat]

I'm playing a Half-Red Dragon Minotaur Level 1 Fighter (+5 Total LA and 6 Monstrous Hit Dice and 1 Level of Fighter for a total ECL of 12th) and I must say I love it!


In numerous boards I've seen LOTS of people say that a high +LA character just isn't worth it but I can't say I agree. I think it really depends on the character concept and whether that high +LA really helps you play your character as envisioned.


In my case, I'd say it does so I don't regret it one bit.

 

[Endur]

Half-Fiend Trolls Rock

If you combine an already existing LA race with a template, you can sometimes find a rocking combination.

i.e.

half-fiend Trolls ... Resist 10 to Fire and Acid, SR, and DR.

half-fire elemental Trolls ... Trolls immune to fire

and so on

 

[mattcolville]

Again our group is trying out a evil campaign (anti hero) and some of the players have disploayed interests in being half fiend especially. Back when I thought it's cost was a +2 level adjustment the players were debating if it was worth it or not, in our current 10th level campaign. But now I found out it is a +4 level adjustment no one interested at all, not even humoring the idea....all 5 players rejected it within seconds....

Has anyone played a half celestial or half fiendish pc, at the +4 level adjustment? Was it willingly done or did the DM force it on you as part of your life path/pc history?

whats your thoughts on the level adjustment templates?

Thorn Crest

In my setting, Elves are LA+4 with all the abilities you'd expect as a result.

People have played them.

The simple problem is; at low levels (5th through about 10th) all those abilities and stat mods don't make up for the lack of hit dice. A 5th level human fighter could waste a LA+4 dude with one level of whatever.

Once you hit, like, 11th level, it starts to balance out.

 

[scourger]

I don't even think +1 ECL is worth it. Another DM offered to allow aasiamr in his FR game, and I was intirgued at the idea of playing an aasimar paladin. But the ECL meant I would be 1st level while everyone else was 2nd level; and the aasimar meant I could have Die Hard as a human pladin could. It wasn't worth it. I solved it in my current campaign by allowing aasiamr paladins with no ECL to encourage people playing good PCs.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Check out the Rakshasa

Even then, you give up 7 caster levels for a bunch of stuff that doesn't help a caster a lot, or can be gained through spells.

I'd much rather meet a rakshasa sor 6 than a sor 20, even in the rakshasa's favoured environment of intrigue.

 

[ARandomGod]

Bob, the half celestrial: I don't know why I can't pick this shield +3 up, it just slides through my hands

Joe, the human: I can pick it up just fine. That's so odd. How about these boots of jumping?

Bob: Nope, same thing. It is like some oter force is limiting what I can have.

Joe: Huh, oh well, guess I get the shiled, the boots, and these gloves.....



Just doesn't make a lot of sense in game.

Now THAT is the reason why LA was written in. Some people, people who may GM, don't seem to be capable of not having a +3 shield there in the first place. Or perhaps can't concieve of there being LESS treasure.

Or to say, to me the GM giving out treasure makes lots of sense in game, and having the half celestial being able to manifest such a thing seems like a poor idea.

So it would play more like this:

"Wow. there are no +3 Shields. It's as if there's something out there making my pay for my abilities. But hey, I'm higher level than you are!"


"You could always go the UA route and give the player the option of burning EXP to lower the ECL down. Seems pretty fair in retrospect. Sure, short term, the character is going to be a bit behind, but he/she/it will catch up pretty quick to the rest." ~~ Kirinke

I do that one all the time. In fact, I do one better and force the gradual payment of XP, ie I give out an XP "penalty" that they eventually outgrow.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I do that one all the time. In fact, I do one better and force the gradual payment of XP, ie I give out an XP "penalty" that they eventually outgrow.

As I've shown above, I think a lot of the time, the bonus you've gotten scales upwards to compete favourably with the penalty you accepted anyway (unless you're a caster). Personally I think LA buyoff is a pretty terrible idea most of the time.