Okay, this whole "points of light" thing . . .

[FreeTheSlaves]

My interpretation of points of light is pretty much an unmapped, unquantifiable and most definitely hostile world. I think points of light works best without a world map, and the implied safe exploration that must've occurred.

Friends and allies will be few and far away, and need considerable effort to be won over and/or strengthened. No timely cavalry, no unemployed passing by uber-heroes. Hard graft for valuable allies.

Enemies are numerous, nearby and would have the upper hand if they weren't so busy tearing each other apart. One evil race won't hold back just because the other is evil too. Nah, it'll really be dog-eat-dog at it's most vicious. This allows guilt-free escapism where bad guys richly deserve what they're gonna get from the heroes.

Sure it's just my take, but the above doesn't sound much like many official campaigns I can think of... ???

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Friends and allies will be few and far away, and need considerable effort to be won over and/or strengthened. No timely cavalry, no unemployed passing by uber-heroes. Hard graft for valuable allies.

Sure it's just my take, but the above doesn't sound much like many official campaigns I can think of... ???

Yeah, that's what I get from it to. I know that friends of mine have said they HATE "saving the world" adventures, since they assume that there must be someone in the world more powerful than them. And if there is, then it doesn't make any sense that THEY are saving the world when anyone who is ALIVE has a vested interest in stopping the end of the world.

For example, there was one adventure where a cult who was mislead was going to wake some "great evil ones", Cthuluesqe ultra powerful entities who were asleep and would likely destroy the whole world, even accidentally when woken.

The mage guild of their country had discovered all of this out and asked the PCs to stop them before it was too late. The PCs were around 12th level. The Mage guild had been established as having a couple of 16th and 17th level wizards amongst their number. When asked why the mage guild wasn't sending their own most powerful people to guarantee that life didn't end very soon, they were told that the country was at war with another one and all of their powerful members had been asked by the country to help defend the borders.

The players went along with it, but they have grumbled about it since then as an example of adventures they hated the premise of. They said that no reason whatsoever short of another end of the world plot should keep someone who knew about the problem from stopping it. They said that there is no good reason at all for them to have been recruited either, since it was established there there are more powerful adventurers living in the country too.

I believe the point of Points of Light is to create a world where there isn't a huge mage guild with lots of resources at their disposal who could stop a problem if they wanted to. There might be a powerful wizard in a town 3 days travel away, but can you get to him in time? Will he want to help? Do you even know he exists? There are all sorts of dangerous creatures between you and him, can you even make it?

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

Wilderlands of High Fantasy has been around longer than quite a few posters here have been alive, and there are two separate companies producing D20 modules for it.

Hm.... but there was a 20 year gap, or something? IMO, that doesen't qualify as having been around for that long. By that estimate every one of the very old (and forgotten) settings were successful.

Also, meaning no disrespect to the two companies involved, they are hardly major league players. Them supporting Wilderlands doesn't seem to change that.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Hm.... but there was a 20 year gap, or something? IMO, that doesen't qualify as having been around for that long. By that estimate every one of the very old (and forgotten) settings were successful.

Also, meaning no disrespect to the two companies involved, they are hardly major league players. Them supporting Wilderlands doesn't seem to change that.

Er, Necromancer and Goodman aren't major players? Who's a bigger D20 player than they are?

 

[broghammerj]

Ravenloft's license was yanked back. It was plenty successful.

I would argue that's not the case. If it was so successful it wouldn't have been licensed away or been on hiatus when no one was producing it. I guess the level of success is relative. FWIW I highly enjoyed the setting

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

Er, Necromancer and Goodman aren't major players? Who's a bigger D20 player than they are?

Bad wording from me.

What I menat is that the setting is unknown outside rpg forums and such. I guess hardly any teens today will know of Wilderlands. So Goodmanand Necromancer are not major league players in the a setting sense' (did that make sense).

I agree they are big in the d20 market.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

I know that friends of mine have said they HATE "saving the world" adventures, since they assume that there must be someone in the world more powerful than them. And if there is, then it doesn't make any sense that THEY are saving the world when anyone who is ALIVE has a vested interest in stopping the end of the world.

One answer to this situation is to have whatever powers that be have wrong priorities.

For example, they may be too engrossed in immediate political concerns. Short term concerns can easily have a disproprotionate amount of priority.

What about all the evidence you think? Well proponants of the short-term agenda may present a distorted lens of the greater evil so that it appears less pressing. They do not need to be evil to do this, merely misquided. Certainly there could be cunning agents of the great calamity who bend over backwards to support this view.

In such a scenario there can exist simultaneously advocates for the save the world agenda and sincere opponants. Given such a political context the heroes could have a real hard time convincing the powers that be to take their quest seriously. The heroes may even doubt their quest - but I'd suggest the heroes are ultimately right, because that is righteously cool.

I've just outlined the background to our RttToEE adventure. To more than a few powerful figures our characters are viewed as cranks... However as our heroes raw power and corresponding influence grow, they're been taken more seriously.

 

[Just Another User]

In such a scenario there can exist simultaneously advocates for the save the world agenda and sincere opponants. Given such a political context the heroes could have a real hard time convincing the powers that be to take their quest seriously. The heroes may even doubt their quest - but I'd suggest the heroes are ultimately right, because that is righteously cool.

Or another possibilities is that the local menace need the intervention of the higher level NPCs while the global menace can be dealt with by the much lower level PCs, let's take his mage guild example, sure the high level wizards could dispatch the the evil cult in a wink, but while they do so the enemy country would invade and pillage their country, the world is safe but their country is booped, a raw deal for them,I'm sure you'd agree, so what they do is send a group of adventurers (of an appropriate level) to defeat the cult while they protect their nation, (something the PCs are not high level enugh to do efficiently) and everybody is happy. After all it is not like they aren't doing something for it, they sent you to solve the problem, didn't they?

 

[DandD]

And why shouldn't they be able to deal with the doomsday cult first, and then the enemy invading country second?
This is some messed up priority, and lets the high-level NPCs look like clueless idiots, which we're all trying to avoid.

 

[William Ronald]

And why shouldn't they be able to deal with the doomsday cult first, and then the enemy invading country second?
This is some messed up priority, and lets the high-level NPCs look like clueless idiots, which we're all trying to avoid.

I would have had the Mage Guild deal with the threat, and have the PCs help out with the war. The leaders of the Mage Guild could then resume their normal duties, and maybe ask the PCs to track down a lose end from stopping the end of the world. (Maybe following up reports of a cult in the enemy's territory or follow up on an old map found by the Guild.)