Okay, who here LIKES the magic items and magic system in D&D?

[kigmatzomat]

Unsafe casting systems never work. I only see them in fantasy novels (eg it's dangerous to summon demons) and yet I never see evil PCs try to call a demon with more Hit Dice than they can control.

Obviously you've never played Shadowrun or Earthdawn. In both those games I've seen people summon spirits that if they fail will kill them. Heck, I've cast spells in those games that even if I succeeded I fully expected to be unconscious and possibly dead.

I don't mind the D&D magic system. It has the advantage of general simplicity and a low learning curve. Never, ever underestimate the value of an easy learning curve.

That said, if I were re-writing the D&D magic I'd be inclined to create a SR-type magic system where the caster has to make a saving throw against the spell.

 

[kigmatzomat]

But I LIKE having magic that is predictable and safe to use. I LIKE having magic items that are bought and sold and yes, not treated as if they are unique and special because you can't get another one.

I like being in a world where magic is rare and any found is coveted. If I play a magic user I want my character to be unique and be able to fill the peasants, monsters, and my companions with AWE at my powers.

Y'know, driving to work today I passed a Maserati, the first one I've ever seen on the road. These things are rare and coveted and yet bought, sold, predictable, and safe to use.

 

[Mr. Lobo]

Y'know, driving to work today I passed a Maserati, the first one I've ever seen on the road. These things are rare and coveted and yet bought, sold, predictable, and safe to use.

Just to knit pick a little (in good fun of course) but don't the last two items actually depend a lot on the driver?

 

[Desdichado]

Its a game, what I want from agame is simple and easy and a few friends that also like it. I'll save being picky and critcal for something that actually matters.

It does matter. If something about your main hobby (as is the case with me) irks me, and I spend a lot of time on it, then it certainly matters.

I mean, yeah, in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter. But if I'm talking "grand scheme of things" I probably ought to quit gaming altogether and take up something more productive and useful as a hobby, right?

 

[ThirdWizard]

I like the D&D magic system.

I've tried other things. I've tried spell points; I've even tried the Channeler in 2nd edition (which by the way was horrid). In the end, we always came back to fire and forget. Why? Because it works and that's what the game is built on. It makes perfect sense, and it is very flavorful. I do intend to try the AU preparation/casting method at some point, and I will probably like it, but its still a version of the same thing. Vancian all the way!

 

[der_kluge]

Have you tried the Warlock in CAr?

No. In our current game, arcane magic is off-limits to PCs, so it's kind of moot anyway.
What is CAr? (aside from something with four wheels that I use to get to work)

edit: oh, must be Complete Arcane. It's one of the Complete books I don't have yet, but it's on my list.

 

[azmodean]

I personally like the Vancian magic system and the readily available (but expensive) magical items.

The primary reason to keep the magic system simple IMHO is fairness. I don't mean game balance, I mean the amount of time spent dealing with the effects of a given character's actions. There are some really interesting magic systems out there, but I have no desire to use them because IMO, they take too long to adjucate.

For instance, I had a player who wanted to play a wild mage. I took a look at the existing wild mage "system" (roll on a chart, bah) and decided to make my own system that would be really random. About half way through I realised that it would just take too long to adjucate, and I had to tell the player that I couldn't allow wild mages due to the added complexity. If I ever move to using a laptop during my games, things like this will become viable since I'll just whip up a quick program to give me the results.

The same situation exists for fighter types, DnD definitely does not have the most engrossing melee combat system around, but unless everyone is playing a fighter, I just can't justify adding a big pile of additional rules, then it wouldn't be fair to the spellcasters.

You might say just use the complex rules for both, but then I'm in over my head. There's only a certain level of complexity you can put in a game (depending on the players involved) before it bogs down, for a game that allows a pretty wide range of character types, I think DnD hits the sweet spot for a lot of people. For everyone else, there are a lot of options for beefing up the rules.

 

[Pants]

I like it. It's easy to learn and use, simplistic, and fun. I think one point in favor of the Vancian system is that I've stopped trying to emulate the 'mysterious' magic systems I've read about it books, mostly because translating something like that to a game world would be monstrously difficult. This is mostly because the rules of the magic system are very rarely explained.

For those of you that have read the Black Company books and have the new CS by Green Ronin, how well does the magic system emulate that in the books? I'm quite curious really.

Although I wouldn't be adverse to trying out a mana point or some kind of skill or corruption based mechanic. Really depends on the game I guess...

 

[SWBaxter]

Y'know, driving to work today I passed a Maserati, the first one I've ever seen on the road. These things are rare and coveted and yet bought, sold, predictable, and safe to use.

As a general rule, Maserattis don't violate the laws of physics, nor are they tossed at groups of orcs in hopes the orcs will die in the explosion so the Maseratti owner can loot the remains. So I'm not sure your analogy works real well.

Dangerous magic systems are useful in games where magic is not otherwise balanced with mundane means of doing things. D&D tries to achieve such a balance, and is useful for campaigns in which either everybody uses magic or magic is just another way of doing things. But not all games are looking for that kind of vibe. For example, in The Riddle of Steel, magic is a lot more powerful than fighting or skill use. But as a tradeoff, the side effect of spells is to age the caster and often knock them out; this produces a very different style of caster than the mobile artillery platform often found in D&D groups. And Ars Magica casters are different from both of those, being almost godlike in their power. These and other styles can all be fun ways to play, it's a matter of using the rules that fit the style you're interested in.

 

[Zappo]

I like the Vancian system. Spell points feel ... argh, I hate to use that word ... videogamey. There. I wrote it. Now excuse me as I go wash my hands.