Old New Spell

[Storme]

I'm returning to the game after quitting 23 years ago. My DM is allowing me to update the character based on his level (and not his xp....the modern xp system is very brief...his 908,000 xp after 6 years of playing which made him level 13 makes him about level 42 now...yikes...Huge Ancient Dragons were about level 12 and Gods were 15+).

Amatar was very industrious in the old days. In fact he created several spells over the years with my old DM which worked well in his campaign. Those of the "Amatar" line he shared with the Magic User's Guild, and began popping up in other characters spell books and was used a few times by enemy NPCs (!) though the rest were closely guarded. I remember feeling pretty flattered, if a little alarmed, when we fought a white dragon who cast Amatar's Shield of Force on himself. Some spells he discovered over time, as the DM used to like to spice the world up with new things occassionally and Amatar or others would sometimes add new original spells to their spellbooks.

What I'm considering doing is to update these spells to 3.5 and see if my new DM will accept them as part of Amatar's spellbook. Some of them, like Dream has an almost identical published counterpart in 3.5 (though Amatar's verison is MUCH weaker and is the same level).

I was wondering if you'd be willing to help me translate them, or give me an idea if they would or would not fit in 3.5. There are about a dozen of them so we'll do them two at a time.

Starting off:

HATE (enchantment/charm)
level 4
Range 2"/level (that's 20 feet per level in 3.5)
Duration: Special
Effect: One creature
Components: v,s
Casting time: 4 seg (that would be about a standard action)
Saving's Throw: negates

Description: When this spell is cast the victim is filled with hate for a certain individual randomly determined by rolling a d100.
1-20 Hate everyone but the caster
21-40 Hate allies
41-60 Hate one enemy except the caster
61-80 Hate self
81-90 Hate caster
91-100 Hate caster's choice.
Any creature may be filled with hate and will immdiately attack the named party, all else being unimportant until the named target(s) is destroyed. If the hate is directed against the spell target, there is a 50% chance that he will commit suicide per day if his wisdom 13 or less. Otherwise there is no effect. The spell lasts until dispelled, removed curse, or named target destroyed.


LOVE (enchantment/charm)
level: 4
Range 2"/level (20' per level)
Duration: Special
Effect: One creature
Components: v,s
Casting Time: 4 segments (one standard action)
Savings Throw: Negates
Description:the spell will cause any creature to fall passionatley in love with another single creature of the caster's choice. The spell recipient will be effectively charmed by the named target for one turn per level (10 minutes per level) of the caster, as well as being enamored/friendly with the named target until it is successfully removed by dispel magic or remove curse. Savings throws are adjusted according to the named target's charisma:
3 or less = +4
4 = +3
5 = +2
6 = +1
15 = -1
16 = -2
17= -3
18+ = -4

 

[LonePaladin]

The effects of that hate spell can effectively be mimicked with the confusion spell, as it gives the target a random chance of attacking an ally, an enemy, or the caster, or leaving him standing in place or running away. If you want to make it hard to get rid of, use insanity (which is basically a permanent confusion spell). Any spell that dictates that a target commits suicide is generally a no-no (even high-level enchantments, like dominate person, can be broken by giving a suicidal order).

Your love spell sounds an awful lot like charm person. That spell's only first level, lasts one hour per caster level, and makes the target friendly toward the caster. If you want to direct the target's attention to someone else, simply use suggestion or dominate person/monster. Tell the victim, "You have found the love of your life, and it's that person over there."

P.S. Unless my math is off, it looks like you quit playing in the same year that I started. Welcome back; I've been keeping your seat warm for you.

 

[Jack99]

HATE (enchantment/charm)
level 4
Range 2"/level (that's 20 feet per level in 3.5)
Duration: Special
Effect: One creature
Components: v,s
Casting time: 4 seg (that would be about a standard action)
Saving's Throw: negates

Hate Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mindaffecting]
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range : Medium (100'+10'/level)
Duration : 1 day/level or until target of hate is destroyed
Targets: One living creature
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

 

[Storme]

Hate Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mindaffecting]
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range : Medium (100'+10'/level)
Duration : 1 day/level or until target of hate is destroyed
Targets: One living creature
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

I think the range is too long Jack. I'd say range: Close (25'+10/level). I didn't intend it to be a long range attack. One day per level isn't TOO bad. Time is the reason behind this spell. I think I could live with that for HATE, but not for LOVE.

Thanks for your input LonePaladin. I am, however, quite familiar with the utilitzation of the spells you mentioned and often use them too good effect. The effects of Hate or Love, however can't be duplicated by either of those spells. On a rudimentary level, perhaps, in the same way that dimension door can duplicate teleport. But Charm person lasts a very short duration and doesn't simulate that long term Love Potion idea popular in pre-elizebethan literature, nor does it create a "love" effect. Suggestion could, but, as a level 3 spell, it's duration is very short, and not long enough to get the young man the lady wants to marry into his nicest clothes and to the church in time! Hehe.

Also, confusion or suggestion cannot duplicate the effects of Hate. On a rudimentary level, perhaps, in the same way Shield duplicates Wall of Force. Both are short duration and doesn't simulate the long term pursuit of some cursed person after you until you can figure out how to stop him.

Both are much narrower focused than charm, suggestion, confusion, etc, but the effects last longer. Neither of them is a Combat oriented spell.

My biggest concern is the duration of both these spells...which was the reason why I wrote them. Can a "permanent till dispeled or removed" spell be allowed in 3.5? Maybe they just need to be higher level. Heck...Power Word Stun has no savings throw, and Polymorph Any Object under the right conditions is permanent till dispeled though the effects of both are far more potent than Hate or Love (this was my thinking when I initially wrote these).

 

[Elethiomel]

I think the range is too long Jack. I'd say range: Close (25'+10/level). I didn't intend it to be a long range attack. One day per level isn't TOO bad. Time is the reason behind this spell. I think I could live with that for HATE, but not for LOVE.

Close isn't 25'+10' per level, it's 25' +5'/2 levels.

At level 12, 20' per level works out to 240'.
At level 12, Medium (100'+10'/level) works out to 220'.

 

[Jack99]

I think the range is too long Jack. I'd say range: Close (25'+10/level). I didn't intend it to be a long range attack. One day per level isn't TOO bad. Time is the reason behind this spell. I think I could live with that for HATE, but not for LOVE.

snip ---

My biggest concern is the duration of both these spells...which was the reason why I wrote them. Can a "permanent till dispeled or removed" spell be allowed in 3.5? Maybe they just need to be higher level. Heck...Power Word Stun has no savings throw, and Polymorph Any Object under the right conditions is permanent till dispeled though the effects of both are far more potent than Hate or Love (this was my thinking when I initially wrote these).

About the range, I think it fits quite well, as the poster above me pointed out, but ofc, YMMV. That said, 20/level vs 100+10/level: at 7th level, which is when the spell is available, its 140 vs 110, at 13th level its 260 vs 230 and at 20th level its 400 vs 300.

If you choose the "close range", you would have 140 vs 40, 260 vs 55 and 400 vs 75. Imho Medium range is by far the closest fit.

About the duration, the spell reminds me quite a bit about Geas/Lesser Geas which has the duration of 1 day per level, or until "discharged". Granted, you could probably get around it, thats really up to your DM, not me I dont think it as a big deal to have a longer duration, for what it is worth.

Cheers