old question: detect evil trump invis?

[evilbob]

I'm sure this has been asked a thousand times before, but since I have no search feature: does detect evil (or detect ___) trump invisibility?

The way I read it, it would after 3 rounds. It still seems harsh for a 1st level spell (or class feature) to overpower a 2nd level spell, though. Everyone's thoughts?

 

[AuraSeer]

A detect spell can locate an invisible creature, but I wouldn't say it "trumps" invisibility. It has some serious limitations.

First, in order to be located, the invisible creature has to remain in the detection area for the full three rounds of concentration. If it moves, the detecting caster must guess at a new area to study, and the three round counter starts over. The invisible creature can keep moving around forever.

Second, even if the target does sit still and let itself be pinpointed, all the detector can find out is a location. That is, he knows what 5' square the target is in. It still has full concealment, which means attacks against it have a 50% miss chance, and it still gains the bonuses on any of its own attacks.

Third, there are easier ways to accomplish the same thing. Even without magic, you can detect an invisible creature with a Spot check (DC 20) or a Listen check (opposed by Move Silently).

 

[James McMurray]

The detect spells (magic is your best bet when looking for invisible foes) will tell you which square an invisible critter or object is in after three rounds of concentrating. You'll still have a 50% miss chance trying to hit it.

It's useful, but not broken. For it to be truly useful there has to be no danger of the concentrating detector getting hit, and the invisible creature has to be unwilling or unable to leave the detection zone in those three rounds.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Indeed, it is helpful but not broken, esp since you have to either maintain concentration (no attacking or casting other spells) or have to recast it if the target moves. I used the detect evil strategy to help find a hiding/invisable target in last night's game, and while helpful, I had to hang back to keep it up in case she slipped out of the fight.

 

[Gerion of Mercadia]

ok - really dumb question following along same thread.

If I have detect magic or magic "higher up" the chain - like arcane sight; can I see the aura of the invisibility spell and get the same effect? He still has 50% concealment of course, just as if you were using detect evil.

and - there is a nifty spell here I would like to point out

Nystul's Undetectable Aura.

 

[Darklone]

Indeed, it is helpful but not broken, esp since you have to either maintain concentration (no attacking or casting other spells) or have to recast it if the target moves. I used the detect evil strategy to help find a hiding/invisable target in last night's game, and while helpful, I had to hang back to keep it up in case she slipped out of the fight.

Not recast it when the target moves but you have to look around again... then the target moves again etc...

 

[TarionzCousin]

ok - really dumb question following along same thread.

If I have detect magic or magic "higher up" the chain - like arcane sight; can I see the aura of the invisibility spell and get the same effect? He still has 50% concealment of course, just as if you were using detect evil.

Not a dumb question. At least, I don't think so. I would say that yes you can see the effect, but I'll listen to the rules lawyers.

Also, what if the creature is naturally invisible? Would Detect X be able to find that creature's 5-foot square?

 

[James McMurray]

You can see an invisible creature's spell auras with Arcane Sight, including the Invisibility spell.

Also, what if the creature is naturally invisible? Would Detect X be able to find that creature's 5-foot square?

Detect Magic won't detect it unless the ability is magical. The other detect spells would still work.

 

[Faerl'Elghinn]

So it's overpowered for a character to be able to spend 3 rounds doing nothing but moving and concentrating to pinpoint an invisible target? Hmmm... that's not even counting the standard action spent casting the spell/activating the ability... Even once the creature is pinpointed, if the "detector" uses a standard action to do anything else, the invisible creature is free to move and start the process all over again. I though the RAW/FAQ made it pretty clear that detect spells were an extremely inefficient method of defeating invisibility. In fact, a well-aimed bag of flour is generally considered a much better solution.

 

[James McMurray]

Yep, but some days all you've got left is cantrips, and the bard used your flour to make breakfast.