D&D General Old School DND talks if DND is racist.

Status
Not open for further replies.

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
If that's all you need, go for it. I don't think they're particularly ... anything ... if the majority aren't "traditional" orcs.

But again, there's nothing new here. Feel free to share your ideas on orcs, but I think there are so many monsters that their niche has to be fairly narrow to it to make sense to have even a decent percentage. YMMV
So, you’re not going to answer my questions then? Ok. I guess I’ll just go on not understanding why so many people so strongly believe races need unified ethnocultures to count as something other than “human with a mask.” Just like every other time this argument gets trotted out. And the conversation will never be able to advance.
 

log in or register to remove this ad


Vaalingrade

Legend
In cerebromorphosis don't the tadpoles eat the brains and grow tentacles out of the face basically keeping the humanoid body but psionically altering the flesh and growing tentacles/altering the mouth of the original humanoid body?

So this is a way to make your flayer babies grow into quadrupeds with no opposable thumbs instead of a humanoid biological chasis.
It gets weirder.

See, illithids are an unnatural subspecies of their type created by the elder brains. If left to their own devices, they turn into neolithids, the original species.
 

Oofta

Legend
Some of the grief Oofta is being given is rooted in the fact that his Orcs' creation story is not influenced by Warcraft or Warhammer; they came from elsewhere, far enough back in the past to be strange and unfamiliar to more modern sensibilities.
I will agree they aren't WOW orcs. Then again I don't know much about WOW orcs other than that they seem to just be barbaric humans since I've never been particularly interested in MMOs.

I want evil humanoids, the less they represent anything (e.g. indigenous peoples) the better. For me.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
Some of the grief Oofta is being given is rooted in the fact that his Orcs' creation story is not influenced by Warcraft or Warhammer; they came from elsewhere, far enough back in the past to be strange and unfamiliar to more modern sensibilities.
Look, I don’t give a hoot what @Oofta ’s orcs’ creation story is, or anyone else’s for that matter. Do whatever the hell you want in your own games. I just want to understand why so many people seem to so vehemently believe that non-human humanoids need immutable ethnocultures to count as anything other than “human with a mask.”
 

I don’t disagree.

Yeah, seriously, the biggest benefit in moving away from inherent race bonuses is that there is less desire to optimize your character via your race.

Also it would give a chance for Dragonborn to be interesting because "Dragonborn are uninteresting" was basically the whole reason I started thinking about it. Honestly amazed at how much that race has grown on me.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
I will agree they aren't WOW orcs. Then again I don't know much about WOW orcs other than that they seem to just be barbaric humans since I've never been particularly interested in MMOs.
I think WoW orcs are aliens? Like literally from a different planet. I dunno, WoW is not to my taste.
I want evil humanoids, the less they represent anything (e.g. indigenous peoples) the better. For me.
Sure, you do you.
 


Lanefan

Victoria Rules
I would prefer that mechanical distinction come from a creature's Background. In my mind, a career soldier of any lineage is going to have a higher Constitution than a career academic (who, in turn, would have a higher Intelligence than a career fisherman.) And so on.
Interesting idea but on first thought I can't see a viable way to make that work without it being wide open to abuse.

Also, how do you handle things like Elves, who live for centuries and may have already had several Human-length careers before ever becoming adventurers?
 

EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
So what would they look like to you? How would you distinguish them from humans or the 20-odd other humanoids?
Firstly, I wouldn't include that many if the goal was to create really distinctly different groups. I'd go for (at most) 6-ish, because coming up with even five such distinct things would be a challenge. If I were sitting down and spending the years necessary to pre-write a fantasy series, I'd do substantially more work and could possibly push things up to the 10-12 range, but I wouldn't expect that of just anybody.

Though realistically my preferred solution is a mix--yes, certain races are mostly similar to humans, and those races tend to be the ones that get along swimmingly and form mixed-racial communities, which is a classic fantasy trope all its own. But there can also be more "alien" races that require caution to understand and work with, because their physiological needs and their ingrained values differ from the humanoid races.

A key example here is JK Rowling's goblins. Both humans and goblins have beefs with one another, but we get to see a fascinating look into how goblins differ from humans through Bill Weasley, who works with them as a curse-breaker for Gringotts. He teaches Harry that "property" and "theft" and "sale" to a goblin don't mean the same things they mean to the English, and indeed to most human cultures with such concepts. To the vast majority of human cultures with a concept of "property" (which is most of them), property belongs either to some specific person, or to a collection of people (and no, those stories about how Native American cultures had no concept of "property" are not really true--they saw property as group-centered or leadership-centered, rather than purely individual-centered), and the transfer of property, unless otherwise specified, is a permanent exchange.

Goblins do not see it that way; to a goblin, if you create something, that means it belongs to you forever, it is bound to you and you alone because you are its creator. You can "sell" it to someone else, or create something on commission for someone else, but it is and always will be yours; the buyer or commissioner is simply borrowing it from you for a specified period of time (often the purchaser's lifetime). To the goblins, a human passing down a goblin-wrought sword to her daughter is "stealing," permanently taking the fruits of that goblin's labor. To the humans who purchased that sword, the goblins coming to take it back are "stealing" it. This has led to centuries of bad blood and strife between the two species, and both sides resent the other pretty strongly.

Now, I'm not going to defend Rowling's use of some questionable stuff about goblins generally (they're not exactly subtle in which particular ethnic groups they reference...), nor her other attitudes about unrelated issues. But this is a neat, simple, easily-explained example of how you can articulate a genuinely different fundamental value compared to pretty much all humans. (I don't doubt that there's a possibility that a human culture exists or has existed which had an idea of property and exchange like HP goblins', but I've never heard of it and it's never come up in a discussion thereof, so I'm reasonably confident in calling it "unusual" among humans at the very least.) And this is a fundamental value difference that isn't even derived from thinking about the species' physiology or implicit connections to other species (e.g. dragonborn and dragons, elves and faeries, dwarves and their wars with giants, etc.), which can lead to all sorts of ideas as noted above.
 

Status
Not open for further replies.
Remove ads

Top