D&D General Old School DND talks if DND is racist.

[Scribe]

Out of hand I could literally name all the clans and their specific gimmicks and list makeup.

But the whole point I was making was that hanging on to the MM version for familiarity doesn't work when most people's concept of what makes an "Orc" is very different. Warhammer Orcs are bloodthirsty, but their attitude and portrayal is completely different. Trying to adhere to a dull and frankly flawed idea for no other reason than "That's how it's been" just doesn't make sense.

OK perfect, but...what are they going to do, each and every one, when presented with an unguarded, human town.

 

[Justice and Rule]

OK perfect, but...what are they going to do, each and every one, when presented with an unguarded, human town.

I don't know what you're trying to say. I'm not saying that D&D Orcs should be like Warhammer Orcs. Rather, I'm trying to say the "familiarity" argument is a dumb one that shouldn't be used. You're tunnel-visioning on the wrong aspect of what I'm talking about.

Given that D&D is a roleplaying universe that is much more cosmopolitan than Warhammer, I think they should be constructed in a way that allows them to interact with society rather than being a mindless monster attacking it.

Let me again point to Hobgoblins as an excellent example. Is there anything that they are doing that couldn't be done by humans in a mask? No. But that doesn't make it any less interesting, and it's why they are such a better race.

 

[MGibster]

Given that D&D is a roleplaying universe that is much more cosmopolitan than Warhammer, I think they should be constructed in a way that allows them to interact with society rather than being a mindless monster attacking it.

And there's nothing wrong with that. It's a preference. But there's nothing wrong with just having them be evil pretty much all of the time because their primary reason for existence is to serve as opponents to defeat in a game. It's just a preference. I can go with a campaign setting either way. I'm biorctual.

 

[Scribe]

Given that D&D is a roleplaying universe that is much more cosmopolitan than Warhammer, I think they should be constructed in a way that allows them to interact with society rather than being a mindless monster attacking it.

For, and to, some. In some settings. In the Sword Coast?

Let me again point to Hobgoblins as an excellent example. Is there anything that they are doing that couldn't be done by humans in a mask? No. But that doesn't make it any less interesting, and it's why they are such a better race.

I dont see that at all, but if thats where your coming from, OK.

I think Orcs are far more interesting in a fictional world, than Hobgoblins.

 

[Justice and Rule]

For, and to, some. In some settings. In the Sword Coast?

Compared to Warhammer? Absolutely yes.

I dont see that at all, but if thats where your coming from, OK.

I think Orcs are far more interesting in a fictional world, than Hobgoblins.

From what angle? Like, what makes them interesting? They have nothing to them. Hobgoblins have actual stuff about them. You can use them in multiple different ways beyond XP fodder. I just have no clue why Orcs are interesting. Maybe useful, particularly if you are interested in simplistic killers to send at your players, but interesting? They aren't even an interesting malicious horde.

 

[Scribe]

From what angle? Like, what makes them interesting? They have nothing to them. Hobgoblins have actual stuff about them. You can use them in multiple different ways beyond XP fodder. I just have no clue why Orcs are interesting. Maybe useful, particularly if you are interested in simplistic killers to send at your players, but interesting? They aren't even an interesting malicious horde.

For context, I'm a huge fan of Khorne.

 

[Justice and Rule]

For context, I'm a huge fan of Khorne.

I mean, Khorne is pretty awesome, but I don't think MM Orcs work in the same way at all.

 

[Minigiant]

Something I sometimes struggle with is trying to make sense of having both Orcs and Hobgoblins.

The differences in D&D tend to boil down to "chaotic evil" green-skinned guys versus "lawful evil" greenish-skinned guys.

In a setting where there's more nuance and some orcs can be "civilized," I'm not sure where exactly that places hobgoblins.

I see it as orcs being a people who crave freedom to challenge things and hobgoblins desire structure in order to advance it.

Orcs desire freedom and therefore prefer communal efforts to not force others into specific jobs. Goals are given and everyone is free to do as they want, but the goal must be met at the end. But it often isn't andtheylook like a disorganized mess.

Hobgoblins are militaristic because it offers a clear chain of leadership and a ladder to to climb. Civilized hobgoblins would be bureaucratic and labeled. Everyone would be attempting to climb some ranking system and knocking others down. They'dbe the one who'd invent business suits.

 

[Scribe]

I mean, Khorne is pretty awesome, but I don't think MM Orcs work in the same way at all.

I just looked at the MM Orcs. Its all about smashing no? How about you tell me what you get out of the MM (not volo's) entry.

 

[Justice and Rule]

I just looked at the MM Orcs. Its all about smashing no? How about you tell me what you get out of the MM (not volo's) entry.

I think they're just dull. Not much to do other than toss them in to the grind, which... whatever?

Like, I bring up hobgoblins because I like using them because they can appear in a variety of situations. You can meet them on the road, you can meet them in a forest, you can meet them in a tavern. They might attack, they might parlay, they might be aggressive, they might be polite. To me, that's what helps make them interesting: there's no simple reaction to them. Each scenario can be different and require a different response.