D&D General Old School DND talks if DND is racist.

[MGibster]

Something tells me the civilians and children in every monster den were not press upon ant borders, seeking to enslave any populaces, rape any riches, or steal any treasures.

Are you serious? Children are the worst!

 

[Justice and Rule]

Tieflings contain demonic blood.

It's still frowned upon by many to say townsfolk would view them suspiciously. So, it would appear that there is some question concerning where nature ends and nurture begins.

Likewise, depending upon setting, orcs are said to be the progeny of an inherently evil divine being.

Which isn't to say that I don't see racism in how they're sometimes portrayed. I do. At the same time, it also means evaluating where the real world ends and where the fiction begins.

There are, in my opinion, a lot of valid world building questions which come out of that.

I mean, I think there are plenty of ways to put prejudice into a fantasy world, but it should always be well-considered and not done gratuitously. The biggest thing to remember is whatever you put in has to be justified by you and not the fiction.

Yeah. I’d just rather say “sure, you can have good succubi if I can have good gnolls” and move on than continue to let this line of discussion distract from the actual topic.

It's honestly a fascinating topic to deal with on its own, but yeah it's just not what is being discussed.

 

[Justice and Rule]

Like, if I'm being honest, I'm surprised that the Ondonti haven't been brought up, and why the hell they are considered a different race when they are just Orcs who settled into farming.

 

[Remathilis]

Like, if I'm being honest, I'm surprised that the Ondonti haven't been brought up, and why the hell they are considered a different race when they are just Orcs who settled into farming.

I think they got magic powers from the goddess that watched over them, iirc

 

[Scribe]

Like, if I'm being honest, I'm surprised that the Ondonti haven't been brought up, and why the hell they are considered a different race when they are just Orcs who settled into farming.

If Wizards had kept them in the current/modern dialogue of the game, this wouldnt even be a discussion.

 

[MGibster]

I mean, I think there are plenty of ways to put prejudice into a fantasy world, but it should always be well-considered and not done gratuitously. The biggest thing to remember is whatever you put in has to be justified by you and not the fiction.

Is "This is the story I want to tell" a reasonable justification?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Not quite.


The forces of Chaos being represented by the various creatures in the Caves of Chaos.

Which is a problematic setup, that dnd has moved away from, for the better. Even DDO, which has the Keep on The Borderlands as a starter adventure option, draws lines between the Cult of Elemental Evil or whatever, and the regular "monster" folk of the region. Your goal quickly becomes to take down the cult, and the bugbears and goblins and kobolds and orcs you're slaying are members of the cult primarily, which is a much better setup than "orcs and such are inherently beings of violent chaos that want to burn your house and eat your kids. Go kill them!"

But if we are going to go down the road of Orcs != Evil, then neither can anything else.

Nonsense. One does not follow from the other. You've made a wild leap in a random direction.

Yeah. I’d just rather say “sure, you can have good succubi if I can have good gnolls” and move on than continue to let this line of discussion distract from the actual topic.

That's fair, I suppose.

 

[Charlaquin]

Like, if I'm being honest, I'm surprised that the Ondonti haven't been brought up, and why the hell they are considered a different race when they are just Orcs who settled into farming.

I mean, same reason wood elves and high elves are different (sub)races. Same reason elf was originally a class. In the old paradigm, humans have culture, demihumans have race. If you have a subgroup of demihumans that doesn’t conform to their race’s mono-culture... they’re ipso facto a different race.

Thank goodness that paradigm is going away. It has been a lengthy process, but we’re finally almost there.

 

[Scribe]

Nonsense. One does not follow from the other. You've made a wild leap in a random direction.

Feel free to believe so. An Orc is no more a Human, than a Gnoll, Flayer, Succubus, Warforged, or Solar. If you are going to justify one, do so for the rest, or simply accept that your view on Orcs should apply to everything, its much easier.

 

[Justice and Rule]

Is "This is the story I want to tell" a reasonable justification?

I mean, if that works for people given your execution, okay? I just typically not try to casually toss in stuff like racism without thinking about why I'm doing it.