D&D General Old School DND talks if DND is racist.

[Jfdlsjfd]

Gibberlings aren't sapient.

Demons etc. are supernatural entities designed solely for the purpose of carrying out evil, not just... people.

I get that, to you, orcs aren't people, but unfortunately since at least the early 1980s, D&D's official writers have frequently treated them as if they were. So they are and have been for a long time.

It's been answered a lot of times man.

Granted for gibberlings (I haven't seen them since Baldur's Gate video game, are they still a thing?) but I disagree that demons/devils are "designed solely for the purpose of carrying out evil". That would be "always evil". And yet, they are not, canonically not since celestials can fall and be demons be redeemed. Such stories predates D&D and are "canonical" parts of D&D. I'd say the exact same problem exist with demons and orcs: either you see them as non-people, and you can ascribe any behaviour to them, or you consider them to be free willed and they are people and shouldn't be treated differently than other people. I think many people are OK with kiling demons is because they are being culturally indoctrinated that "demons = bad guys".

 

[Oofta]

I don't think anyone's injecting to LG orcs existing or can't be done.

They existed 30+ years ago.

They're just there to be butchered and killed filling the fodder role.

Whatever they replace them with will have same problem. It's systematic to D&D really. They can dress it up a bit and write nice fluff but at the end if the day something has to fill that role.


Magnamund 80's game world designed by AD&D player.

httpss://lonewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Magnamund

Giak
Orc/Goblin replacement.

Giak

Giaks are humanoid servants of the Darklords. They are not very intelligent, but they are fierce and strong. The Darklords first appeared in Magnamund and began to breed Giaks in MS 3072 . In MS 3262, the Darklords began construction of the city of Helgedad, which eventually claimed the lives of...

lonewolf.fandom.com

End of the day a significant portion of the player base wants bad guys to beat up without guilt. I think we will always desire that kind of simplistic escapism.

 

[Zardnaar]

End of the day a significant portion of the player base wants bad guys to beat up without guilt. I think we will always desire that kind of simplistic escapism.

Yep and regardless what WotC says it does I think Orcs and co still going to be used that way. If not them then something else.

 

[Bohandas]

This is a great example of the problem and how it works: bad tropes and stereotypes are created, and they are normalized and used again over time because people got them from fiction that treated them as normal. This is exactly what we've been talking about this entire time: it's not that it's going to subtly turn you racist, but it's going to normalize the language and the usage so that these things continue to get used by the people who were inspired by these works. Old Universal films inspired Ravenloft, and they used those bad stereotypes there, which got brought to modern day when they wanted to use Ravenloft again.

Does this make sense?

No, it doesn't. It sounds like blaming a child for the sins of their father.

It doesn't matter how the trope originated, it's not being used that way now. It's been severed from its origins as an ethnic stereotype. It's akin to refusing to use a GPS because you don't agree with how the UNited States uses its military.

 

[Horwath]

Why cant we have both?

Eberron Orcs that are more or less same as humans with regards to alignment and can be whatever they want to be.

And Forgotten Realms Orcs, that are hopelessly corrupt by Gruumsh, down to the DNA level.
Some may be born different, by they are culled from the tribe before adulthood as they are seen as weakness of the Orcs.
Even fewer that manage to slip this "filtering" become outcasts of the tribe and are those PC Orcs or very important NPCs that break almost monolith archetype.

MM description of the Orcs can be whatever anyone feels appropriate to envelope multiple settings. Any alignment with maybe slight tilt towards evil and/or chaos?

 

[Umbran]

Yes but they are not giving any actual evidence of distortions, merely expressing a hot take

Mod Note:
If you are going to claim "SCIENCE!" then the emotionally laden phrase "hot take" should not be part of your discourse.

It is time for both of you to set this topic aside, before someone gets booted from the thread.

 

[Umbran]

Mod Note:

So, perusing the thread at this point, nearly 90 pages in...

The sides are quire clearly set and dug in, pretty much along lines as the last time this topic came up, as we might expect. This serves no useful purpose. Thread closed.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Why cant we have both?

Eberron Orcs that are more or less same as humans with regards to alignment and can be whatever they want to be.

And Forgotten Realms Orcs, that are hopelessly corrupt by Gruumsh, down to the DNA level.
Some may be born different, by they are culled from the tribe before adulthood as they are seen as weakness of the Orcs.
Even fewer that manage to slip this "filtering" become outcasts of the tribe and are those PC Orcs or very important NPCs that break almost monolith archetype.

MM description of the Orcs can be whatever anyone feels appropriate to envelope multiple settings. Any alignment with maybe slight tilt towards evil and/or chaos?

Mod Note: Even though this thread is now closed, there’s still a little tidying to do.

You were booted from this thread a while back, by none other than the site’s owner.

Why are you posting political content on this site? Don't post again in this thread.

By violating this, even so long after, you get a warning point.