OMG! The PCs are murderers! Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh

[Oryan77]

What about every time a PC gets into a "fist fight" in a tavern, and chooses to use a weapon or spell against the unarmed drunk instead of using his fists like the drunk is doing? Even if the PC doesn't kill the guy, isn't that attempted murder? Of course, I'd just claim the guy is a monk and his fists are lethal weapons

PCs do a lot of questionable things and are still called heroes. I get a kick out of seeing players do this type of stuff as if it's completely normal

This gives me a great idea though. I'd love to suck a PC into a bar fight with a drunk and if the PC pulls out a weapon, then the drunk would say, "Oh *hicup*, using a blade in a fist fight huh? *hicup* Ok then, let's tangle..." as he pulls out a sword. He turns out to be the town drunk who happens to also be the local weapon master.

 

[Alzrius]

To quote one of Paul Kidd's D&D novels, "I'm an adventurer! I demand fiscal compensation for acts of homicide!"

 

[Celebrim]

What about every time a PC gets into a "fist fight" in a tavern, and chooses to use a weapon or spell against the unarmed drunk instead of using his fists like the drunk is doing?

This happens? Regularly enough to be an example? And outside of comics like KotDT? I mean, I assume it happens somewhere, but does it happen to everyone and I'm just missing out?

Even if the PC doesn't kill the guy, isn't that attempted murder?

Yes, it is. Depending on the relative rank of the parties, the PC's could be hung for this. At the very least, you'd risk a flogging unless you severely outranked the drunk and could use the 'insulted by a churl' defence.

PCs do a lot of questionable things and are still called heroes. I get a kick out of seeing players do this type of stuff as if it's completely normal

It would horrify me, mostly because the PC's turning criminal would probably lead to a very short campaign unless the PC's were really high level and could survive what a nation could throw at them (including rival mercenaries).

This gives me a great idea though. I'd love to suck a PC into a bar fight with a drunk and if the PC pulls out a weapon, then the drunk would say, "Oh *hicup*, using a blade in a fist fight huh? *hicup* Ok then, let's tangle..." as he pulls out a sword. He turns out to be the town drunk who happens to also be the local weapon master.

Heh. I like to start my campaigns with someone or something beating the tar out of the PC's just to remind them to stay on their toes and not get too cocky. In one campaign, they tangled with a gang of overseers from a local plantation, and the overseers beat the crap out of them then whipped their hides bloody with bullwhips and left them in the dirt as an object lesson to anyone who might forget who was in charge. In another, the PC's tangled with what they thought was a bandit, but which proved to be a werewolf that knocked them all unconscious and stole what he could carry away.

I find it a very useful story trope. The hero almost always loses at first, then there is a middle period where they train and become seriously dangerous, then they go back and reclaim their honor by beating up whoever disgraced them in chapter one.

 

[Oryan77]

This happens? Regularly enough to be an example? And outside of comics like KotDT? I mean, I assume it happens somewhere, but does it happen to everyone and I'm just missing out?

Hmm, maybe it isn't common like I thought. I've just seen so many different players in different campaigns I've been in do it that I thought it was common for a player to think of it as a game instead of as a "real" situation. Ya know, players get so used to just killing people all the time that "killing" becomes the first reaction since it is a game. I don't do that myself, but I've seen a lot of players turn a bar brawl into a murder seen, or kill NPCs for looking at them wrong (or mouthing off).

I saw a good cleric PC lethally attack and kill 2 city guards just because they thought he "murdered" the dead guy the PC just killed (the guy tried to rob the PC and he killed him). The guards told the PC if he pays them to overlook the situation, they won't arrest him. Instead, the PC drew his weapon, and the guards tried to grapple him (for an arrest), they failed, and the cleric used his magic to kill them both in 1 round.

I've seen players do this stuff all the time. The difficult part is you either piss a player off with an alignment change "punishment" and then they cause you grief, or you let them do it but try to turn it into an adventure where he's wanted for his crimes (and hope he realizes his mistake & stops doing that).

With the last example, I setup a whole scenario where he was now a wanted man in the city. But that player was a problem player and I stopped inviting him to the game for other reasons before I was able to play out the fugitive scenario.

 

[Dross]

I know the Sahuagin deserve it, what with being cannibals and genocidal maniacs themselves but it's still ethnic cleansing.

The Sahuagin ate other Sahaugin? I thought they only ate other sentient beings (mind you I played the 1e module shortly after it originally came out, so it's been a loooooong time )

 

[ExploderWizard]

When I ran this series way back when, I had the smugglers supplying weapons to the lizard men and the sahuagin just for profit. Good series.

 

[DrunkonDuty]

Dross wrote:
The Sahuagin ate other Sahaugin? I thought they only ate other sentient beings (mind you I played the 1e module shortly after it originally came out, so it's been a loooooong time )

IIRC then yes, they do eat other Sahuagin. I believe it says so in the write up on them in the old AD&D MM1. But I was using the term cannibal in that sense (applicable only in fantasy literature of course) in which it applies to someone eating any sentient species.

Asmor wrote:
I'm not familiar with the module in question, but it sounds like they had loot and thus are fair game to be killed. Really, the PCs were doing them a favor; if not for the PCs, they'd probably be killed by bandits who wouldn't do as professional a job and lead to undue suffering.

ROFL! It's a kindness really.

Re: bar brawls turning lethal. I see that happen all the time in games. Obnoxious drunk spills PCs beer in an attempt to start a fist fight, PC breaks out the nuke. Nowadays I quietly remind the player that it's a bar brawl, drawing lethal weapons is naughty. If they go ahead then things tend to spiral out of control.

Had an incident in my just started Champions game a couple of weeks ago. Heroes break into an office building, looking for the villain who is hiding out there. They go in through the front door, punch out the security guard on the door then, after someone says 'We don't want witnesses' one of the PCs just snaps his neck. And these guys are working as special undercover Federal Agents!

Thing is, these folks are fairly good role-players. They're NOT of the 'if it moves kill it' school. Nor are they 'problem players.' But this crap happens anyway. Go figure.

 

[falcarrion]

Does it really matter if the pcs are considered good guys or bad guys?
It all depends on your point of view. If the pcs where all orcs and a band of humans came into there camp and started killing everything. Wouldn't the humans be considered evil by the party? As long as the players and the dm are having fun playing, I say go for it!

 

[Oryan77]

one of the PCs just snaps his neck.

It would be funny to have the PCs here from a friendly NPC or something about how he has to go to his cousins funeral, "My cousin was working his security guard job the other night and someone broke in to the building and murdered him. I feel so bad for his wife & kids...he was working 2 jobs and they were barely scraping by". I'd love to see how my players would react to a situation like that

 

[TheAuldGrump]

What about every time a PC gets into a "fist fight" in a tavern, and chooses to use a weapon or spell against the unarmed drunk instead of using his fists like the drunk is doing? Even if the PC doesn't kill the guy, isn't that attempted murder? Of course, I'd just claim the guy is a monk and his fists are lethal weapons

*Shrug* I have run games where PCs were hanged for doing just that. The players were a trifle surprised....

I have also had games where a bunch of the other patrons grab the weapon wielding PC while the drunk proceeds to punch him in the gut a few times, then have him tossed into a ditch/horse trough/harbor. In one case the patrons included a couple of the other PCs, who felt that he deserved to be thrown into the harbor.

Mind you, the same PC ended up getting killed when he picked a fight with an ogre that the party was traveling with. (Ogres aren't necessarily evil in that setting - but do you really want to pick a fight with an ogre who totes around a deck gun as his personal firearm?) First level PC vs. ogre with class levels... rest of the team watching it happen, and saying that he deserved it.

The Auld Grump, oddly enough, that ogre was evil, just not an adversary at that point. And the dwarf that he was partners with was much worse.