On Backgrounds for Beginning 4E PCs

[The Little Raven]

This is not an edition-war thread, and I'd rather you didn't try and make it one by taking pot shots at either older editions or their players.

If his quote counts as making this an edition-war thread, then your posts about swingy crits and save-or-die effects would qualify, since both of you are pointing out parts of previous editions that you like/dislike.

 

[The Little Raven]

See, that's exactly what I am talking about. luke was a perfect earlier-Ed 1st level character. he had a few skills and talents that made him a little better than average, but he was pretty fragile and ineffective util he'd gained a level or two. By the time we see him at the beginning of ESB, he's where 4E starting PCs feel to me.

Luke Skywalker was flying a vehicle he had never flown before (X-Wing) and hit a target that was so small that other experienced pilots claimed was nearly impossible. No 1st-level character from any previous edition could have pulled that off.

 

[AllisterH]

Um, hopefully trying not to do ANOTHER edition-war thread but Conan from the novels by the age of 15! had already been part of a barbarian horde that sacked a city.

He had already lost track of the number of killed men and defeated a lion with just a sword by the time he was 17.

 

[Andor]

Luke Skywalker was flying a vehicle he had never flown before (X-Wing) and hit a target that was so small that other experienced pilots claimed was nearly impossible. No 1st-level character from any previous edition could have pulled that off.

Unless "use the force" meant "roll a 20".

 

[Reynard]

What my comment meant was this:

The change to the mechanics, I feel, supports the story more. Now the player can immerse himself in the story of his character.

When I read stories of heroes, they always manage to overcome obstacles through luck, guile, or newfound skills. Unfortunately, in D&D it seems to boil down to whether or not, I, as a player, am lucky enough to survive the first couple of levels.

That always took ME out of the game. It wasn't a story about my character anynmore. It was a story about ME the gamer, trying to keep my character alive.

While I differ with you on the definition of fun and the importance of "story", I understand what you're saying now. And I can see why the changes in PC power level and the general nature of PC survivability and reduced uncertainty built into the system would make you happy. Sorry if I knee jerked: your statement read like "previous editions were gamist claptrap" to me and I obviously misread you.

 

[Reynard]

Luke Skywalker was flying a vehicle he had never flown before (X-Wing) and hit a target that was so small that other experienced pilots claimed was nearly impossible. No 1st-level character from any previous edition could have pulled that off.

Flying the X-Wing doesn't count because the character was established as a skilled pilot (skill points plus skill focus, anyone?). And the destroying the death star was the one thing that Luke did right in the entire movie, probably because he levelled up right before the battle and saved his action points for the shot (or, you know, had a "Use the Force" feat or something). But he was not awesome, he was not badass -- he was a farmboy with a couple of exceptional talents, which is exactly what I am describing as earlier starting characters, versus 4E's initially skilled and competent characters.

But back on topic: if you were playing Luke in 4E and you could choose anywhere in his career in the movies or comics to place him at 1t level, 4E style, the rest being "player written background", where would you put him? I still say on Hoth -- he's obviously not indestructible, but he has a few tricks up his sleeve (force powers) and some pluck and luck on his side.

 

[The Little Raven]

Flying the X-Wing doesn't count because the character was established as a skilled pilot (skill points plus skill focus, anyone?).

Ground vehicles, yeah. He wasn't used to dog fighting in three dimensions, though.

And even with full skill points and Skill Focus, he'd still come short of being able to pull off what he did at first level.

And the destroying the death star was the one thing that Luke did right in the entire movie, probably because he levelled up right before the battle and saved his action points for the shot (or, you know, had a "Use the Force" feat or something).

If you discount his time as a gunner on the Millenium Falcon ("Great shot, kid! Don't get cocky!") and his ability to anticipate the training droid with the helmet blast shield down.

But he was not awesome, he was not badass -- he was a farmboy with a couple of exceptional talents, which is exactly what I am describing as earlier starting characters, versus 4E's initially skilled and competent characters.

He's pretty badass for a farmboy. He can outfly pretty much all the seasoned Rebel veterans.

But back on topic: if you were playing Luke in 4E and you could choose anywhere in his career in the movies or comics to place him at 1t level, 4E style, the rest being "player written background", where would you put him? I still say on Hoth -- he's obviously not indestructible, but he has a few tricks up his sleeve (force powers) and some pluck and luck on his side.

To me, Luke becomes level 1 when he goes after R2-D2, or even before, since he's such a good pilot and gunner.

 

[Scribble]

While I differ with you on the definition of fun and the importance of "story", I understand what you're saying now. And I can see why the changes in PC power level and the general nature of PC survivability and reduced uncertainty built into the system would make you happy. Sorry if I knee jerked: your statement read like "previous editions were gamist claptrap" to me and I obviously misread you.

It's cool... I think everyone is in a heightened mode at the moment.

As for the importance of story... well in a discussion of the character's backstory it seems kind of important!

I'm just saying it's all in the descirption of the events.