D&D 5E On Representation and Roleplaying

[abirdcall]

Really? That was your take home from that? Suggesting that, horrors, there might be some nuance here?

But what is the point of posting about it?

What are you advocating here?

Are you saying people here don't know what nuance is? Can you point to something specific that you take objection to?

 

[prabe]

I think the barrier isn't as steep as you are portraying here. We live in the internet age, it's easier than ever now to find communities of folks with different perspectives or cultural experiences to connect with. If I'm self-publishing a setting inspired by, say, native Guatemalan mythology, I have tons of opportunities to reach out to people who live in Guatemala, who study Guatemalan mythology, who identify as Guatemalan, whose ancestors come from Guatemala... I should do my due diligence to respect the culture I am using as a palette for my creative process. Maybe that even means bringing on some collaborators!

This was mostly my point. Thank you.

 

[abirdcall]

The point is to suggest that "Let's burn it all down if it even vaguely smacks of bad representation" can do as much harm as good. Do you think you're doing POC a favor if, for example, you won't cast them as villains because it might stereotype them? That you're doing representation any favors when people are afraid to even take a pass at cultures other than their own?

All that does is encourage people to stay with the most whitebread thing they can think of. If you think that's moving things forward, I think that's a categorical error.

Yep, there it is.

Exactly what I thought you were on about.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I think the barrier isn't as steep as you are portraying here. We live in the internet age, it's easier than ever now to find communities of folks with different perspectives or cultural experiences to connect with. If I'm self-publishing a setting inspired by, say, native Guatemalan mythology, I have tons of opportunities to reach out to people who live in Guatemala, who study Guatemalan mythology, who identify as Guatemalan, whose ancestors come from Guatemala... I should do my due diligence to respect the culture I am using as a palette for my creative process. Maybe that even means bringing on some collaborators!

While absolutely true, its good to remember that a lot of people working in the industry would be, effectively, having to ask for free labor on this. That's fine if the people you're consulting with are good with it, but if they aren't, you may be just stuck with the research you can do by yourself.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Yep, there it is.

Exactly what I thought you were on about.

So, suggesting that you want to approach this in a way that actually produces the result you want instead of the perverse counter is arguing for the status quo.

Right. Uh-huh.

 

[abirdcall]

So, suggesting that you want to approach this in a way that actually produces the result you want instead of the perverse counter is arguing for the status quo.

Right. Uh-huh.

Concern troll

A concern troll is someone who disingenuously visits sites of an opposing ideology to disrupt conversation by offering unwanted advice on how to solve problems which do not really exist. Topics of "concern" usually involve tactical use of rhetoric, site rules, or with more philosophical...

rationalwiki.org

 

[BookTenTiger]

While absolutely true, its good to remember that a lot of people working in the industry would be, effectively, having to ask for free labor on this. That's fine if the people you're consulting with are good with it, but if they aren't, you may be just stuck with the research you can do by yourself.

I mean, if you are self publishing then you are probably relying on free labor anyways, from friends who are willing to read over your work to a gaming group who can playtest to, I don't know, a mom who sends you pizza to help keep you fed.

Larger publishers will hire folks to do this kind of stuff, but small publishers rely on community support anyways. I don't see how talking with people on the internet is much different.

 

[Thomas Shey]

But what is the point of posting about it?

What are you advocating here?

Are you saying people here don't know what nuance is? Can you point to something specific that you take objection to?

Here? I haven't seen anything particularly ridiculous. However its not uncommon to see people say "Don't write about cultures that aren't your own." (Not, notably, "Don't right about cultures you don't know" (which is simply showing respect)). While its good to get people who are in the culture to write about their own, if you want those cultures to be more visible, waiting for that and only that is not the way to go. Not in a hobby where self-publishing is as much of the industry as it is.

 

[BookTenTiger]

To connect this with playing a role, we did a Dresden Files game set in San Francisco. One of the players wanted to play a Rabbi as a Holy Warrior. This player is not Jewish. So what did they do?

They talked to their wife (who is Jewish), they talked with me, they researched online... And they clarified to the group that their character should not be treated like a stereotype. They also came up with traits that had nothing to do with being Jewish.

It wound up being a fantastic, memorable character!

 

[Thomas Shey]

Concern troll

A concern troll is someone who disingenuously visits sites of an opposing ideology to disrupt conversation by offering unwanted advice on how to solve problems which do not really exist. Topics of "concern" usually involve tactical use of rhetoric, site rules, or with more philosophical...

rationalwiki.org

Oh, just call me a fascist and get done with it.

The fact this is a tactic used by people with malign intent does not mean everyone who thinks there's good and bad ways to do something is a concern troll. That's just a cheap way to blow off any criticism you're not willing to engage with.