On The Horrible Naming

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Weapon Profiency, Weapon Specialisation are nice, generic names, I agree. But they don't really tell me what they do in game terms. I know they probably will improve my handling with a weapon, but how exactly? The only advantage is that they have "Weapon" in their name and thus you know that they are probably good for a fighter and you might want to take a closer look when skimming through the feats section.

No feat in the book explains its mechanics by the name. After many years of 3.x, we have become accustomed to associating certain names with certain abilities, but when I first looked into the PHB, i had no idea what Combat Expertise or Combat Reflexes did, and I had no idea how to resolve a Magic Missile attack.

But "Lightning Panter Strike" or "Gold Wyvern Adept" manage the same: "Wait, Strike? That sounds like something for attacking. Adept? Sounds like something magical)

Whether the names sound "cool" or not, i don't really know. I absolutely couldn't get the problem with "Emerald Frost", because it doesn't sound bad to me at all. (But I am not a native speaker). "Golden Wyvern" I don't like because I don't like the word "Wyvern" at all. But the word will be at least found in the Monster Manual, so what do I care.

 

[BryonD]

The point of that list is that there has always been assumed flavour from one world in the PHB, but people don't complain about that. As soon as there is assumed flavour from an as yet un-fleshed out campaign setting in the new PHB, it gets complaints hurled at it and threads started in their dozens.

Can you point out the equivalent example(s) from the 3E PH?

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

It is interesting to note that one sales point of 4E has been "easier for new DMs" and thus it will grow the hobby by growing the DM pool first.
I'm not clear on how flustering a new DM because he can't recall what his npc's feat *does* is going to fit into that plan.

humour

I'm pretty sure that after all this discussion everyone is going to be able to remember what Golden Wyvern Adept does.

/humour

 

[Jinete]

humour

I'm pretty sure that after all this discussion everyone is going to be able to remember what Golden Wyvern Adept does.

/humour

I can't get the name out of my head all day. Damn you WotC.

 

[Psion]

The idea I like best was mentioned elsewhere but I think would work best at achieving both generic and fluf.

The feats could be listed as:

Sculpt Spell [Golden Wyvern Adept]
Description

or in other words

Generic Title A (Same title that goes in SRD) [Fluf Title B (IP specific and flavorful idea title)]
Description

I guess Wolfgang Baur and Malhavoc Press were ahead of their time, then. In the Book of Roguish Luck, all the spell descriptions were like that. (With a generic name and one used among thieves.)

 

[Lurks-no-More]

I assume all of these and their forced flavor raised a similar level of stink when they were introduced, right? Broad attacks and insults towards the game's designers, multiple simultaneous whines from the same source, endless claims of "Well, it's objectively bad and that you don't agree is a personal failure of yours"?

"I combo my Howling Grognard Attack with Finely-Parsing Fan Stance!"

 

[Piratecat]

Are you going to pay for a CS account for both of us so that we can PM? Sorry to disappoint you, but it is the nature of message boards to go off-topic.

If you're off topic and people ask you to stop, doesn't it strike you as rude to continue? Part of using EN World is using good judgment before you hit 'send', and a big chunk of that is considering how your posts affect other people. Hijacking a thread for a topic other people aren't interested in has never been appropriate.

So back on topic, please. If the hijack is something you really want to continue, feel free to start another thread in the appropriate forum.

 

[OakwoodDM]

Can you point out the equivalent example(s) from the 3E PH?

I'm not by my PHB, so forgive me if I'm wrong or miss some, but (as mentioned by someone else) there's Mordenkainen's Disjunction and Evard's Black Tentacles (Mordy at least is a Greyhawk NPC). I don't know whether the Bigby spells are there, but if they are, they can be added to the list.
Is Tenser's Floating Disc in 3E? I can't remember.

(I'm avoiding the gods because they are a lot easier to excise without hassle)

I just don't see how people can get upset about Golden Wyvern Adept unless they know that there's nothing else it's hanging on. If there's a school of magic called Golden Wyvern, yes it's not terribly descriptive, but it's part of the setting. Equally, if there's a PrC (or whatever replaces PrCs) revolving around the Golden Wyvern Guild, it works within the default setting in the same way as a FR feat called Mystra's Chosen or Favoured of Waukeen works within that setting.

If you don't like the Guild/style/school or its name, then all you need in your homebrew notes is something along the lines of "Sculpt Spell replaces the feat Golden Wyvern Adept (found on page XXX) as the Golden Wyvern Guild does not exist in [Name of world here]"

 

[BryonD]

I'm not by my PHB, so forgive me if I'm wrong or miss some, but (as mentioned by someone else) there's Mordenkainen's Disjunction and Evard's Black Tentacles (Mordy at least is a Greyhawk NPC). I don't know whether the Bigby spells are there, but if they are, they can be added to the list.
Is Tenser's Floating Disc in 3E? I can't remember.

Every one of these clearly gives some idea of what the spell does implictly. They completely fail to compare. Your claim that this is precendented is not accurate.

I just don't see how people can get upset about Golden Wyvern Adept unless they know that there's nothing else it's hanging on. If there's a school of magic called Golden Wyvern, yes it's not terribly descriptive, but it's part of the setting. Equally, if there's a PrC (or whatever replaces PrCs) revolving around the Golden Wyvern Guild, it works within the default setting in the same way as a FR feat called Mystra's Chosen or Favoured of Waukeen works within that setting.

Golden Wyvern School of Magic doesn't tell you anything either.
As I said earlier, it is easy to keep straight right now because there is only one case.
When there are 12 or 40, it will suck (even more than it already does).

Player: What does "Golden Wyvern Adept" do?
DM: It makes you better at Golden Wyvern school stuff
Player:

You don't need to know jack about Evard to recall what Evard's Black Tentacles does. Same with every other spell you listed.

If you don't like the Guild/style/school or its name, then all you need in your homebrew notes is something along the lines of "Sculpt Spell replaces the feat Golden Wyvern Adept (found on page XXX) as the Golden Wyvern Guild does not exist in [Name of world here]"

And if you don't like shape spell all you need in your homebrew notes is something along the lines of "Golden Wyvern Adept" replaces shape spell. This keeps the flavor AND avoids confusion AND helps new DMs more AND allows different flavor if you just happen to think that "Golden Wyvern" is a really dumb choice for a name. Quite simply, this would be better in every way.

 

[BadMojo]

I've met plenty of 10-year olds in game stores who could walk you through the lifecycle of any given Pokemon on record, as well as those it'll likely stomp on and get stomped on by in battle. If the kids care, they'll find a way to remember it, even if only through the cripplingly obvious mnemonics of 'Golden Wyvern feats change the shape of spells' and knowing which feat is at which tier.

There are a bunch of rather unfortunate non-core feat names. Since they're in one of many, many splat books I haven't seen them come up in play all that often. In fact, I'm pretty sure only myself and our DM own every book that those feats you mentioned come from.

Falling Star Strike and Eagle Claw fall under those monk feats that fit the monk character class; both at least fit the monk flavor, Falling Star is kind of bad and IMO doesn't really match up with the effects (blindness, right?)

Black Lore of Moil is hilariously bad, for reasons I can't go in to without probably getting in trouble.

Also, just because a 10 year old obsessed with Pokeman can memorize tons of goofy random names doesn't mean it's easy for an adult with a job, bills, kids, a house, etc.