Once per day non-magical effects destroy suspension of disbelief

[Creeping Death]

Your DM hates you?

My player characters are definitely the stars of the campaign.

He said character not characters. You changed what he meant and then answered him.

This thread started out as a shining example of how one is treated if they don't fall down and worship at the alter of 4e.

 

[SweeneyTodd]

Some people like envisioning daily martial powers as representing a chance opening or particularly advantageous moment to strike. It's not like a fighter is going "Okay, time to use my Daily, step chop swing step" -- he's fighting hard, like he's fighting hard the whole fight, but this particular round the fates shine on him. Why? Because the player decided so.

The powers describe an effect you, the player, want to have happan as a result of your PC's actions. Those effects can be described however you like (by RAW). So if a particular way of describing a power usage makes you unhappy, why not describe it in a different way?

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

He said character not characters. You changed what he meant and then answered him.

I'm sorry, I'm not sure I get what you're accusing me of here.

The player characters are the stars. If there's issues with the fact that sometimes someone else's character at the table will get the limelight, that's really beyond the scope of the game, but having different characters share the spotlight happens in fiction and movies, such as the cited Harry Potter novels, as well.

 

[sophist]

IMO, the rationale from the PHB is rather flimsy. Daily powers are the intrusion of metagame conerns into the story. Yes, yes, it does create a sort of illusionary balance that seems to pacify players that want win against the "monsters".

Some in-chracter exchanges about daily powers:
A:"Hey, use that trick that, you used to whack the orcs."
B:"I can't. I tapped my daily reserves for that, now i only can tap my reserves to run faster."
A:"??? ... Well, then use that trick you used to blind the gobin."
B:"I cant. I tapped my reserves for that, too. I can only use it again when we meet the next batch of monsters."
A:"???? ... Well tap your reserves for running faster, to what that goblin."
B:"But understand. I can only tap my resources only once in a specific way. It's a rule...." (BZZZT. Metagaming so we correct to) "its a universal law."
A: <sigh> "But I can tap my resources indefinitly to throw someone sand in the eyes."
B:"Dont bring up things that aren't covered in unversal law. You know full well that THROW SAND would be a power that the gods did not make available for us. And for it to be a fair power, it will tap your resources in way so that you can use it only once for reach batch of monsters."
A: <stunned silence>

The per-Episode-power argument doesn't convince me either:
B:"But understand. I can only tap my resources only once in a specific way. It's a rule...." (BZZZT. Metagaming so we correct to) "It wouldn't be dramatically appropriate."
A:"???? ... leave me alone with your theatrics, and kill the goblins."

To be fair, daily powers in 4e aren't worse than daily powers in 3e or Pathfinder.

And hey, I am not saying daily power aren't good for beer&pretzel rollplaying. But for us other players, weho might want some immersion, it hurts verisimilitude really bad.

 

[Creeping Death]

I'm sorry, I'm not sure I get what you're accusing me of here.

The player characters are the stars. If there's issues with the fact that sometimes someone else's character at the table will get the limelight, that's really beyond the scope of the game, but having different characters share the spotlight happens in fiction and movies, such as the cited Harry Potter novels, as well.

It was in response to the Movie analogy. Andor was talking about his character, you responded about all the characters.

 

[hong]

It was in response to the Movie analogy. Andor was talking about his character, you responded about all the characters.

If Andor was trying to say that his character is the only star of the movie, then he's wrong.

If Andor was trying to say that the characters are the stars of the movie, then he's right but his post is pointless.

And your point is...?

 

[Henry]

IMO, the rationale from the PHB is rather flimsy. Daily powers are the intrusion of metagame conerns into the story. Yes, yes, it does create a sort of illusionary balance that seems to pacify players that want win against the "monsters".

Some in-chracter exchanges about daily powers:
A:"Hey, use that trick that, you used to whack the orcs."
B:"I can't. I tapped my daily reserves for that, now i only can tap my reserves to run faster."
A:"??? ... Well, then use that trick you used to blind the gobin."
B:"I cant. I tapped my reserves for that, too. I can only use it again when we meet the next batch of monsters."
A:"???? ... Well tap your reserves for running faster, to what that goblin."
B:"But understand. I can only tap my resources only once in a specific way. It's a rule...." (BZZZT. Metagaming so we correct to) "its a universal law."

Or, to put it another way...

A: "Hey, why didn't that monster die when you cut his gut open to crawl out!"
B: "Because muscular action closes the hole."
A: "Huh? If I sliced a monster's gut open, he'd bleed to death on the floor."
B: "Yeah, but muscular action closes the hole. It's a universal law."

In most cases, it's just as flimsy as the excuse you use. Why can't a wizard cast magic missile more than once in a day? Does he get tired? Does he forget how? Does his mind need to rest? If so, why doesn't he lose CON or hit points? Or why doesn't he take a penalty on INT skills and checks until tomorrow?

The two above aren't issues in 4e, but are in 3e because of the metagame considerations. The reasons you use to justify them can be as flimsy or as complex and well-reasoned as you want them to be.

 

[el-remmen]

IMO, the rationale from the PHB is rather flimsy. Daily powers are the intrusion of metagame conerns into the story. Yes, yes, it does create a sort of illusionary balance that seems to pacify players that want win against the "monsters".

Some in-chracter exchanges about daily powers:
A:"Hey, use that trick that, you used to whack the orcs."
B:"I can't. I tapped my daily reserves for that, now i only can tap my reserves to run faster."
A:"??? ... Well, then use that trick you used to blind the gobin."
B:"I cant. I tapped my reserves for that, too. I can only use it again when we meet the next batch of monsters."
A:"???? ... Well tap your reserves for running faster, to what that goblin."
B:"But understand. I can only tap my resources only once in a specific way. It's a rule...." (BZZZT. Metagaming so we correct to) "its a universal law."
A: <sigh> "But I can tap my resources indefinitly to throw someone sand in the eyes."
B:"Dont bring up things that aren't covered in unversal law. You know full well that THROW SAND would be a power that the gods did not make available for us. And for it to be a fair power, it will tap your resources in way so that you can use it only once for reach batch of monsters."
A: <stunned silence>

This is hilarious!

This actually inspires me to run a 4E game exactly like that in a setting where the gods have made these arbitrary rules governing the universe, and the world is split between the "chaotics" who chaffe against that and question it and the "lawfuls" who believe it is sacrilege to question it and revel in its short-comings and contradictions!

Beautiful!

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

And hey, I am not saying daily power aren't good for beer&pretzel rollplaying. But for us other players, weho might want some immersion, it hurts verisimilitude really bad.

How do you feel about Vancian magic? That's equally gamist.

 

[el-remmen]

Oh, but for what it's worth, I agree with the OP. Daily martial powers (and encounter ones, too) strike me as lame and don't jive with my own view of how such things should work.