Once, Twice, Three times a Daily

[Andor]

I just idly picked up my copy of "Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved" and noticed something that I hadn't thought about in a while.

Monte appears to like daily abilities. A lot. For everyone. Almost all the classes have abilites with single uses per day or sometimes two or three uses. So do the races.

Clearly Monte is (or was at the time) very fond of making usage limiting a primary resource mechanic.

The problem (for me) is that I HATE this. In play it always feels like the GM is trying to bait you into using your ability before the big fight and hence such abilities either go entirely unused or are never there when you need them 'cause you wasted it in the last room on what turned out to be a kobold illusionist pretending to be a Balor.

Vancian spell casting is one thing, but I really dislike the overuse of the once a day mechanic as a general practice. I hope we don't see too much of it in 5e.

What is the general opinion?

 

[Mark CMG]

In play it always feels like the GM is trying to bait you into using your ability before the big fight and hence such abilities either go entirely unused or are never there when you need them 'cause you wasted it in the last room on what turned out to be a kobold illusionist pretending to be a Balor.

That's an interesting assessment. Can you elaborate on how this manifested with your DM? Is this the case for your with multiple DMs or just one your usually play with? Does your DM let you know out-of-game that this is a strategy he uses? Do you DM sometimes and is this a strategy you use?


Funny thread title, btw.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Yeah, this sounds like a DM issue, not a design problem.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

I think this is a design issue.

Actions should be limited by circumstance, capacity and resources, not a generic mimsy pimsy "but you can't". If there is a believable reason for not being able to do something, I'm all over it but if it is only "but you've already done that today", then that is weak sauce and where the games mechanics are trying to overly inform the fiction of play rather than the other way around.

I know x/day makes it easier but I still believe such things are pretty lame.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Mokona]

I have had a similar experience to the OP though I don't think it was "purposeful" on the part of the DM. If the DM doesn't give strong clues about how many fights you'll have or which are high-danger you don't have any information about when to use "powerful" dailies. I always felt let down when the day ended and I had dailies left over but similarly annoyed when I used a daily on what turned out to be a 1 hit point minion. Some dailies have "until end of encounter" durations and if you use those dailies one you realize you're in over-your-head it's probably too late for the long-term impact of that daily to help.

 

[GM Dave]

I think it is the GM's obligation to get player's to expend resources on imperfect knowledge.

This is part of the way you avoid the '15 min' work day.

Sometimes you have a room of bedsheets strung up to look like ghosts with a few wires to make them move and a wizard blasts with their fireball.

Sometimes you actually have kobolds dressed in bedsheets.

Sometimes you actually have an ogre playing dolls amongst all the bedsheets.

Sometimes you have an actual ghost or all the bedsheets hide ghosts.

This is the reason for the 'adventure' and the 'exploration' element of the game.

Just the other night, I 'picked' on a player with an assassin that tossed a couple of sneak attacks on the character (it was part of a larger story arc where that player had been named in breaking up a crime lord's activities and the crime lord was sending a message). The assassin attack 'happened' when the players were going to be doing their own assault on the hide out of another their group's current villains.

The assassin attack had no chance of killing the player (I give player's full hp in PF so I can freely pound on them). It did make the player choose to use up one of their daily healing.

I read a blog yesterday by a person that hates 'bennies'. The reason that he hates 'bennies' is that he doesn't feel like his character is in danger until he has run out of that cushion.

If a GM is not pushing you to use up limited resources then you're not being pushed to feel like your character is in danger and need to think up a solution.

 

[MichaelSomething]

But daily resources are the core of the strategic play style of early D&D! If you're constantly worrying about what to use when and how much you have left, then the system is doing its job!

You could always go by an encounter-based resources, but we all know how many people like that!

I know x/day makes it easier but I still believe such things are pretty lame.

If you're willing to deal with a more fiddly system and/or depend completely on DM fiat, then be my guest!

 

[Stormonu]

I have no problem with X/day abilities, and often build them into my homebrews.

However, they might be even more enticing if there was some sort of "recharge" mechanic. Not necessarily a simple die roll like 4E's monster recharge mechanic or the milestone method, but a "fulfill this/these conditions and regain a use."

For example, the barbarian's Rage may recharge after he single-handedly defeats a foe. The eladrin's teleport may recharge after he walks so far on foot. The wizard might be able to recharge his fireball by means of a fire-swallowing trick (say 2 torches), etc.

 

[Dausuul]

I hate X/day abilities unless there is some sort of in-game justification. I can swallow Vancian casting, albeit with a lot of grumbling. The profusion of daily effects in 4E drove me crazy, though.

I take hope from the fact that while Monte Cook may love daily abilities, Mike Mearls has no apparent liking for them.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

But daily resources are the core of the strategic play style of early D&D! If you're constantly worrying about what to use when and how much you have left, then the system is doing its job!

You could always go by an encounter-based resources, but we all know how many people like that!

I know x/day makes it easier but I still believe such things are pretty lame.

If you're willing to deal with a more fiddly system and/or depend completely on DM fiat, then be my guest!

It does not require DM fiat at all, but yes it requires that a player knows what their character can do. I sincerely believe this can be done relying only on the character's circumstances, capacity or resources to moderate the frequency of a particular action.

- A healing ritual may take 8 continuous hours to perform. [Requires a time resource]
- A blessing may only be performed as the Sun broaches the horizon. [Circumstance]
- A fighter may only be able to perform a particular exploit if an opponent has attacked and missed them. [Circumstance]
- A sniper can only do their "ultra sniping bolt" if they have maintained a bead on their target for one round, and the target has not spotted them. [Circumstance and Capacity]
- The imbuing of a particularly powerful scroll requires the heart of a Baloth. [Resource]
- A fighter can only perform a particular exploit if they are completely fresh (no wounds and full hit points).
- A wizard casts a spell only if they make a difficult casting check (High DC) and if they fail to at least make a lower DC, then something "not good" happens to them (stunned for a round, lose hit points, are considered fatigued etc.) [Capacity]

My point is that this is all fairly simple to do as long as the designers build it right. It's not that complex, it helps a player invest in their character and what they can do, and it helps create verisimilitude for those who believe it important (while doing nothing wrong for those who don't believe it important). I like the idea of it anyway.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise