once you start a PrC, can you lose its requirements and still continue the PrC?

[evilbob]

A few interesting things of note....

Interesting points. I can say that none of the other "Complete" books have any text regarding PrCs requiring you to maintain the requirements - and I'm fairly certain that all of them came out after Complete Warrior. I know the "Races" books don't either, and so far none of the other books I've checked do, either. CW is the only book that mentions it. (In fact, the only change I can find is that they change the word "Requirements" specifically to "Entry Requirements" - which implies the opposite, at least to me.) This is unlike, say, swift and immediate actions, which are reprinted in pretty much every book I've seen.

Hyp's snarky comment notwithstanding, can anyone find any other places this rule is mentioned?

 

[Gloombunny]

Each prestige class pretty much talks about this, unless in cases of pure logic. Assassins are evil because (irregardless of justification), killing for profit is an inherently evil act. If you kill for purposes other than profit, you are functioning outside the confines of the class, and are no longer an assassin.

as·sas·sin/əˈsæsɪn. Spelled Pronunciation[uh-sas-in] –noun
1. a murderer, esp. one who kills a politically prominent person for fanatical or monetary reasons.

So, wait... an assassin who has a change of heart and repents his evil ways can't keep using the abilities he learned as an assassin for good causes instead? Atoning for his misdeeds means he forgets how to cast feather fall? Really?

 

[moritheil]

I hope everyone realizes that the "Avenger" class on the WotC web site was published specifically to provide a way for non-evil characters to be assassins.

Regarding apotheosis-style PrCs, presumably there is no need to take further levels once you have become a dragon/elemental/outsider/whatever. It does illustrate the point that apotheosis classes are not well written in terms of rules interactions. In general it's best to not allow someone to swap out their domain/feat/whatever is qualifying them for a PrC they already have levels in.

 

[Gloombunny]

I hope everyone realizes that the "Avenger" class on the WotC web site was published specifically to provide a way for non-evil characters to be assassins.

Anyone who needs the entire class reprinted verbatim under a different name to justify changing the alignment requirement needs help...

And that doesn't address the point of what happens when an evil assassin becomes non-evil, anyway.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I can say that none of the other "Complete" books have any text regarding PrCs requiring you to maintain the requirements - and I'm fairly certain that all of them came out after Complete Warrior.

You mean like, for example, Complete Arcane p17?

-Hyp.

 

[evilbob]

You mean like, for example, Complete Arcane p17?

Wow, again.

Regarding the text and not how it was pointed out though, I certainly must have missed that one. And multiple sources - while still giving problems with poorly constructed PrCs - certainly seems to indicate that this was less of an editing error in CW (although many editing errors do exist). Guess I was wrong.

 

[Jhaelen]

So, wait... an assassin who has a change of heart and repents his evil ways can't keep using the abilities he learned as an assassin for good causes instead? Atoning for his misdeeds means he forgets how to cast feather fall? Really?

Yep. If you feel this is unnecessarily harsh, allow the player to make a quest to change his selection of class levels (as per the retraining rules in PHB2) or use the step-by-step replacement descibed in ToM for multi-classed shadowcasters.

Or create a prestige class for 'fallen assassins' that works like the blackguard works for paladins

 

[Amazing Triangle]

Dragon Disciple only makes you a half-dragon AFTER the class is over. This also goes for Elemental Savant. Both you can't be dragon/outsider to START the class.

What happens when an assassin becomes non-evil?
A character who no longer meets the requirements of his
prestige class not only can’t advance any further in that class,
but he also “loses the benefit of any class features or other
special abilities granted by the class.” (Complete Warrior 16)
You retain Hit Dice (and the hit points derived from), base
attack bonus, and base save bonuses granted by the prestige
class.
The rules don’t specifically list skill points (and class
skills) as falling into either category; the Sage recommends that
the character retain these functions even if he no longer meets
the class requirements.
So your repentant assassin would lose his sneak attack,
death attack, poison use, save bonus against poison, uncanny
dodge, improved uncanny dodge, and hide in plain sight class
features, as well as his assassin spellcasting and any weapon
and armor proficiencies gained from the class. He’d keep the
skill ranks he bought with his assassin levels, as well as the hit
points, base attack, and base save bonuses gained from those class levels. He also couldn’t gain any more assassin levels until his alignment returned to evil (at which point he’d also
regain the various features he lost when his alignment changed
to non-evil).

Is this not official enough of a source?

 

[Elethiomel]

Yep. If you feel this is unnecessarily harsh, allow the player to make a quest to change his selection of class levels (as per the retraining rules in PHB2) or use the step-by-step replacement descibed in ToM for multi-classed shadowcasters.

Or create a prestige class for 'fallen assassins' that works like the blackguard works for paladins

Or ignore your interpretation of the rules and allow Assassins to be non-evil as much as they want.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Dragon Disciple only makes you a half-dragon AFTER the class is over. This also goes for Elemental Savant. Both you can't be dragon/outsider to START the class.

Is this not official enough of a source?

Well, your FAQ quote says that if you no longer meet the requirements of a PrC, you lose class features.

The fact that the ability is gained at level 10 is beside the point - the Dragon Apotheosis class feature makes the Dragon Disciple a half-dragon. He no longer meets the "cannot be a half-dragon" requirement of the PrC, so he loses the Dragon Apotheosis class feature, which means he is no longer a half-dragon, which means he regains his class features.

Which makes him a half-dragon, which...

-Hyp.