D&D (2024) One D&D Cleric and Species playtest survey is live.

[Yaarel]

When a rattlesnake uses its rattle to scare something into not stepping on it and leave them alone, they have successfully used intimidation for their benefit.

In reallife, my response to a rattlesnake was cut off its head with a shovel.

(Seriously, there was a drought and the rattlesnakes came to the river that passed thru a ranch were a danger to the lives of the humans at the ranch. If they were out in nature I would never harm it.)

 

[tetrasodium]

In reallife, my response to a rattlesnake was cut off its head with a shovel.

(Seriously, there was a drought and the rattlesnakes came to the river that passed thru a ranch were a danger to the lives of the humans at the ranch. If they were out in nature I would never harm it.)

I'm genuinely curious to hear about how offices, stores, restaurants, & bars tend to handle your shovel toting. What percentage of your time spent outdoors would you say have you equipped with a shovel?

 

[Yaarel]

I'm genuinely curious to hear about how offices, stores, restaurants, & bars tend to handle your shovel toting. What percentage of your time spent outdoors would you say have you equipped with a shovel?

It was at a ranch. There was a shovel nearby.

Actually, my friend shot the rattlesnake first with a rifle. But it kept wriggling, and it wasnt clear that the snake was dead, and I didnt want the rattlesnake to suffer longer. Hence making sure.

The point is. To be a dangerous nuisance is the opposite of a successful Charisma (Intimidation) check.

 

[Chaosmancer]

In reallife, my response to a rattlesnake was cut off its head with a shovel.

(Seriously, there was a drought and the rattlesnakes came to the river that passed thru a ranch were a danger to the lives of the humans at the ranch. If they were out in nature I would never harm it.)

Congratulations on a successful insight roll. Do you believe that every human being on the planet would have had the same reaction? What about other mammals? Do you believe rattles evolved for rattlesnakes as a way to tell predators to kill them? Would you try and use that shovel to kill the bear in my other example?

Yes, turns out that humans with our higher level intellect and reasoning can occasionally react differently than nature intended, because we have incredible foresight. Just because you used that doesn't mean that rattlesnakes aren't using a form of intimidation. After all, you literally killed it BECAUSE it was a threat, not because it wasn't scary.

 

[John Lloyd1]

Congratulations on a successful insight roll. Do you believe that every human being on the planet would have had the same reaction? What about other mammals? Do you believe rattles evolved for rattlesnakes as a way to tell predators to kill them? Would you try and use that shovel to kill the bear in my other example?

Yes, turns out that humans with our higher level intellect and reasoning can occasionally react differently than nature intended, because we have incredible foresight. Just because you used that doesn't mean that rattlesnakes aren't using a form of intimidation. After all, you literally killed it BECAUSE it was a threat, not because it wasn't scary.

I'm just sorry for the poor snake. In Australia the native snakes are protected.

 

[Azzy]

I'm just sorry for the poor snake. In Australia the native snakes are protected.

But who's protected from the native snakes?

 

[John Lloyd1]

But who's protected from the native snakes?

Those who pass the wisdom saving throw (against panicking) or pass a survival check to notice the snake before they get too close!

 

[Olrox17]

I’m afraid we may be conflating CR and intimidation, to a degree.
If T-Rexes still existed, I would stay the heck away from them even if they just walked around silently, no need for them to roar or be scary, because a T-Rex is obviously of a much higher CR than a regular unarmed human.

Now, intimidation tactics do exist in the animal kingdom, evolved strategies meant to make a creature look more dangerous than it actually is.
I believe that this is what the intimidation skill should be about: a successful check makes somebody appear more dangerous than it actually is, a failed check does the opposite.

A classic example of a failed check would be the low-cha 20th level monk sitting in a bar, getting harassed by hooligans. When the monk tries to shoo the low-insight hooligans away, he fails the check and then has to wipe the floor with them in the resulting fight. The low cha monk failed to telegraph his actual power, and a pointless fight is the consequence.

About using strength or wisdom or whatever else instead of cha for intimidation: I wouldn’t.
Give the creatures that have natural intimidating features proficiency and expertise with intimidation, it’ll compensate for their subpar charisma.
State in the intimidation rules that if a player is clearly and visibly more powerful than the intimidation target, the DC for the skill check is lowered.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I’m afraid we may be conflating CR and intimidation, to a degree.
If T-Rexes still existed, I would stay the heck away from them even if they just walked around silently, no need for them to roar or be scary, because a T-Rex is obviously of a much higher CR than a regular unarmed human.

Now, intimidation tactics do exist in the animal kingdom, evolved strategies meant to make a creature look more dangerous than it actually is.
I believe that this is what the intimidation skill should be about: a successful check makes somebody appear more dangerous than it actually is, a failed check does the opposite.

A classic example of a failed check would be the low-cha 20th level monk sitting in a bar, getting harassed by hooligans. When the monk tries to shoo the low-insight hooligans away, he fails the check and then has to wipe the floor with them in the resulting fight. The low cha monk failed to telegraph his actual power, and a pointless fight is the consequence.

OK

About using strength or wisdom or whatever else instead of cha for intimidation: I wouldn’t.

Disagree, instead of monks in your above example, take Vampire Slayers, not Buffy, she does social very well, take Kendra, does not do social very well but knows that it is a weak spot of hers. So the thugs are harassing her and she wants to avoid the fight. So instead of talking her way out of the fight she walks over to the fireplace, picks up the poker and ties it into a knot.

Is that not using Strength for an intimidation check?

Give the creatures that have natural intimidating features proficiency and expertise with intimidation, it’ll compensate for their subpar charisma.
State in the intimidation rules that if a player is clearly and visibly more powerful than the intimidation target, the DC for the skill check is lowered.

 

[Olrox17]

Disagree, instead of monks in your above example, take Vampire Slayers, not Buffy, she does social very well, take Kendra, does not do social very well but knows that it is a weak spot of hers. So the thugs are harassing her and she wants to avoid the fight. So instead of talking her way out of the fight she walks over to the fireplace, picks up the poker and ties it into a knot.

Is that not using Strength for an intimidation check?

What if the thugs happen to be strong enough to also be able to do that poker bending trick? Would that "strength intimidation" check be an automatic failure then?

When I say that a PC clearly and visibly more powerful than a target should get a lowered intimidation DC, I'm not referring to strength or size alone.
A wizard may look extremely powerful and threatening to your local thugs, when they decide to fire a huge exploding fireball in the sky above. Is that an Intelligence (Intimidation) check?
A skilled archer may pin someone's hat to the wall with an arrow in the blink of an eye. Is that a Dex (Intimidation) check?
A cleric may walk into a bandit camp surrounded by spooky Spirit Guardians, speaking with a booming voice thanks to the Thaumaturgy cantrip. Is that a Wisdom (Intimidation) check?

I don't think so. I think all of them are Charisma (intimidation) checks, with an adjusted DC and possibly advantage due to creative role-play.