One Encounter Per Day

[I'm A Banana]

So, here's something new.

If I wanted to have only one encounter in between each "extended rest," how should I up the power of the critters in it? In an ideal world, such a combat would leave the characters down to nearly their final healing surge, with most of their daily powers expended.

The first step, I imagine, is to just throw 2 x or 3 x the monsters into the battle (perhaps in "waves"), since that's how many encounters a party would normally go before resting. But there is some weirdness that makes that especially difficult.

I imagine a lot of the wackiness comes from encounter powers that would need "recharge" mechanics, including especially healing powers, since that's what gives PC's access to their healing surges. I imagine I might also want to use powers that just directly take healing surges, rather than damage. Any ideas for how to handle this?

I'd also like the combat not to drag on for more than about an hour or so -- so about the time of a normal 4e combat. Which I guess would also mean encouraging the PC's to "go nova" as often as possible, especially with so much HP and so many targets on the field.

Anyway, what are your thoughts?

 

[Rechan]

Well I know this is likely not the answer you want but: I would in part redefine what qualifies as "a shot rest" and what is an "extended rest". If for story purposes, if PCs only got in one fight a day, I just say 'you don't get the benefits of an Extended Rest until...'

To give an example, if PCs are traveling across a desert, they may not get an extended rest until after they've finished the journey because the hard journey/environment and poor sleeping conditions doesn't recharge their batteries.

But you want one big blowout for each encounter, rather than just to redefine the tiem frame.

I'd also like the combat not to drag on for more than about an hour or so -- so about the time of a normal 4e combat.

Which would be hard if you just throw 2 or 3 times the monsters at them. That would I assume double or triple the time.

Any ideas for how to handle this?

You mean, aside from the various monsters that already steal surges (like wights)?

One thought is to hit players with an attack that gives them an option. For instance, "This power hits you with a stun. Now, you if you give me a healing surge, you can downgrade that to Daze".

Another option would be to hand out healing potions to deal with surge-based healing. AAs for the healing recharge mechanics, I could see a sort of 'magical healing battery' - something that basically has x uses, and each use recharges an encounter Healing power. After x uses, it disintegrates.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Yeah, it's a good "grueling overland travel" rule, but I want one big encounter, not several little ones.

That would I assume double or triple the time.

Maybe...so perhaps not quite 2x or 3x, then? But surely more than just one encounters' worth, since otherwise they're not burning their surges or using their nova powers, which are the two things I most want to get out of them. I can't imagine just dealing 2x or 3x damage would be a strong idea, since it would break a few characters REALLY quickly, and the goal isn't to necessarily knock them out.

You mean, aside from the various monsters that already steal surges (like wights)?

Yeah, since this wouldn't just be a one-off thing with undead. If I could get a handle on how to do this, it would probably make regular occurrences in my games. I'd need orcs and goblins and dragons and yuan-ti and all sorts of critters to be able to "steal surges." Or somehow allow characters to spend more.

One thought is to hit players with an attack that gives them an option. For instance, "This power hits you with a stun. Now, you if you give me a healing surge, you can downgrade that to Daze".

Another option would be to hand out healing potions to deal with surge-based healing. AAs for the healing recharge mechanics, I could see a sort of 'magical healing battery' - something that basically has x uses, and each use recharges an encounter Healing power. After x uses, it disintegrates.

Nice ideas. I like the "spend a surge to end/reduce the effect" idea, at least in combo with other ideas. I suppose I'd have to give the party 2 or 3 chances to recharge their big guns, though...hmmm...

Maybe if each individual "monster" is an elite who deals 2x damage? And if the Elite falls, a character gets to recharge some HP and an encounter power or two?

Then we'd have a combat against 3 or so "elite" creatures at a time...

 

[Rechan]

Maybe if each individual "monster" is an elite who deals 2x damage? And if the Elite falls, a character gets to recharge some HP and an encounter power or two?

I can see this. Perhaps give the PCs a story item that's basically "taking the power" or "taking the life force" from an enemy so killing it = recharging the healing power. Or an item that functions similar to the paladin's lay on hands: Healer sacrifices a surge to get their heal on (so it uses both the healer and the target's surges).

Another option would be to do those encounters with the 'phased boss', but each 'phase' permits a renewal/recharge. Or you could have one of those phased bosses that eats surges. Maybe that's a penalty for each phase too.

Here's a rat bastard move: an enemy whose attack takes one of your surges, then as a free effect or a minor action after the attack, it creates minion. The story effect here being that it's stealing your vitality, and putting that vitality to bring lifet o other things that fight you. Anything a monster does that takes something Away from you and uses it Against you immediately causes player hate.

Then we'd have a combat against 3 or so "elite" creatures at a time...

Well, 3 elites = six monsters so.

 

[Mengu]

Every monster eating surges may get repetitive. Also unloading every daily in one encounter will make challenging the PC's a bit more difficult. I'd go with some pretty hefty house rules.

You may use 1 daily attack power per session (maybe 2 at epic)
You may use 1 daily utility power per session (maybe 2 at epic)
You may use 1 daily magic item power per session (maybe 2 at epic)
You get 1 healing surge per tier (feats that grant bonus surges only ever grant 1 extra).
You get 1 action point every other session.

I'm sure these rules screw over some classes, but it's only a home game, and one encounter per day already nixes some classes that shine through multiple encounters, so people will adjust, and create characters accordingly, it's not like there is a shortage of options.

Limiting healing surges is the best way to ensure encounters will not last long, so that is where I would put the bottleneck. The more healing a party has, the longer monsters will have to wear them down for the encounter to be a challenge. I think with the above changes, you could maintain combat length, and make some pretty scary encounters. You'll need to gauge how much damage monsters can do, and how many you can throw at them with some experimentation.

I'd actually still be wary of all 6 PC's dumping dailies in round 1, when they know there will only be 1 encounter. But if you use some stagger tactics, some terrain, use delay tactics, use larger maps, etc, that initial dump can be avoided.

 

[S'mon]

I routinely have single-encounter days. I certainly don't house rule, nor do I try to suck up all their healing surges (why the Hell would that be an imperative??).

A typical 'Spike' encounter (per DMG2 definition) IMC would involve a large number of enemies, possibly in multiple waves (round by round, not 'after a short rest'), typically most will be at or below PC level; leaders might be up to 4 levels above the PCs, very rarely any higher. The PCs will be pushed to survive, but if they can do so then they should still have healing surges left and can press on if desired.

Edit: MAJOR point: The players very rarely can be sure that this is indeed going to be the only fight of the day.

 

[Neubert]

Bah, the Internet ate my post.

I take it that you have made a concious choice to let the players have all their powes available to them in every encounter, as you could simply redefine what a short and extended rest is (like Rechan mentioned). Just be careful as some daily powers can ruin encounters, effects that last until the end of the encounter (like regeneration) comes to mind.

I wouldn't increase the power/numbers of the monsters, but instead reduce the number of healing surges each player has. My gut tells me 25% of their original surges and to increase the xp budget of the encounter by about 150% to 200% (to account for them having all their dailies available).

 

[Rechan]

KM. Is this just what you plan to do for the next adventure/few sessions/in case I just wanna do it, or do you plan to do this for an entire campaign?

Because some people are suggesting Macro Level house rules and I was thinking that you were just looking for ways to handle a real Big Blowout encounter if you just wanted to do one or two.

 

[SoulsFury]

If its just for travel, just have an encounter that will require their daily powers to be used to beat it. No need to all their healing surges to be used... that would take a lot of potions for an entire group to use all their healing surges. I think my current longest fight for my 5th level group is like 10 rounds and it was there third fight of the day. I think two of them used all their surges at that point.

 

[Mengu]

Hmm, I assumed this was a campaign style deal... If it's just a few sessions, ignore my post there are much easier solutions. As mentioned, players certainly don't need to know it's the only encounter of the day, which plays out just fine.