One of my players wants to make a new power

[the Jester]

One of my players is talking to me about making a new power, which I am absolutely cool with. However, I want to make sure it's balanced, and the Compendium doesn't seem to want to let me search powers for "dazed", even if I filter the heck out of things. I dunno why... anyhow, I was hoping someone might be able to point me at some good comparisons.

The pc is an enchanter mage (Essentials wizard). His proposed spell is a curse of hemophilia, and this is what he has in mind:

Area burst x within y [he's not sure what x or y should be].
Effect: The target is dazed until the end of your next turn.
Attack: Intelligence vs. Fortitude.
Hit: Ongoing z damage (save ends) [he's not sure what z should be].

My thinking is that an area daze without an attack roll is pretty powerful, but I'm curious as to other examples; might be that I give him a couple of options (one target; needs to hit, etc). He's not quite 11th level, for reference.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

Whether or not it is 'enemies' or 'creatures' in the burst on the target line would have an impact on how powerful it is. Lots of Enchantments seem to be 'enemies in burst,' which makes sense, but not all are.

What is the proposed level of the power? Encounter or Daily? A daze in the effect line without an attack roll is less 'out there' on a daily.

Attacking Fortitude is also a little unusual for an Enchantment, and suggests it will be best used against artillery and skirmishers, rather than brutes and soldiers.

This almost sounds more like Necromancy than Enchantment at this point (though that's not exactly a point of balance).

 

[Mengu]

It's usually in the form of Hit: dazed (save ends) Miss: dazed until end of next turn. But I actually think effect: dazed until end of next turn is all right.

x=1 or 2, y=10, z=10 would be a perfectly fine level 5 daily.

Invoker's Level 9 Fourfold Invocation of Doom might be something to compare it to. It's a much larger area, but without the damage. Invoker's Howl at the Moon and Sun Shard are level 5, as something to compare to but I think they are a bit weak. You can also compare it to Wizard's Grasp of the Grave (level 5), which I think is about on par, since that one is ally friendly. Symphony of the Dark Court is I think the closes power to what you're thinking of, but it's ally friendly, doesn't do any damage, instead immobilizes on hit, and shifts and buffs allies.

I think your power would be fine as a level 5, if it targets all creatures in burst 1 or burst 2 within 10, with ongoing 10 damage. If it's going to target enemies only, bump it up to level 9, and definitely make it burst 2.

I think the other option would be to just take Symphony of the Dark Court as is, or maybe modify it so it deals ongoing 10, instead of immobilized.

 

[chitzk0i]

Effect: dazed really should be on a daily. Area burst 1 for daily 5 or burst 2 for daily 9. Range 10 and ongoing 10 would be balanced.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

One of my players is talking to me about making a new power, which I am absolutely cool with. However, I want to make sure it's balanced, and the Compendium doesn't seem to want to let me search powers for "dazed", even if I filter the heck out of things. I dunno why... anyhow, I was hoping someone might be able to point me at some good comparisons.

The pc is an enchanter mage (Essentials wizard). His proposed spell is a curse of hemophilia, and this is what he has in mind:

Area burst x within y [he's not sure what x or y should be].
Effect: The target is dazed until the end of your next turn.
Attack: Intelligence vs. Fortitude.
Hit: Ongoing z damage (save ends) [he's not sure what z should be].

My thinking is that an area daze without an attack roll is pretty powerful, but I'm curious as to other examples; might be that I give him a couple of options (one target; needs to hit, etc). He's not quite 11th level, for reference.

I think for ongoing damage, the scale is usually 5 on Heroic, 10 Paragon, 15 Epic. I think a power that dazes without an attack roll is definitely potent and thus it needs to be a Daily. I am not sure why it goes against Fortitude if it's some kind of enchantment. I would probably pick Area Burst 1 within 10 and maybe a little more at higher levels.

So:
Z = 5 (Heroic), 10 (Paragon), 15 (Epic)
X = 1 (Heroic), 2 (Paragon), 2 (Epic)
Z = 10 (Heroic), 10 (Paragon), 20 (Epic)

 

[the Jester]

For clarity, the pc is an enchanter, but this would not be an enchantment spell. The dazed condition serves as a mechanical interpretation of the shock to the target's system as it begins to bleed profusely.

With monsters, ongoing damage seems to 'count' as 1 point of damage per point of ongoing. I don't know that the calculus is the same for pc powers though- it's a lot harder to tell how their damage figures are arrived at!

 

[Mengu]

I don't know that the calculus is the same for pc powers though- it's a lot harder to tell how their damage figures are arrived at!

Quite randomly (especially when it comes to implement powers). Fighter powers do striker damage, sorcerer and warlock powers do controller damage, barbarians do better damage with their at-will charge than their encounter and daily powers. It's really all over the place.

For ongoing damage, at heroic levels, I would think of ongoing 5 as "secondary striker" bonus to a power that already does damage, and ongoing 10 as "consolation prize" for a power that does no damage. Ongoing 10 for a power that does damage would be reserved for a pure striker.

But again, when you look at many powers, there seems to be little rhyme or reason to damage assignment.

 

[the Jester]

So how do these look for two options (one if he wants to retrain for it as a power of a level he's got access to, the other if he wants to wait until he gets his next daily):

CURSE OF HEMOPHILIA --- Wizard Attack 9
Daily * Arcane, Implement, Necomancy [assumes this will be a mage school/keyword in Heroes of Shadow]
Standard Action -- Area burst 1 within 10
Target: Each creature in burst
Attack: Intelligence vs. Fortitude
Effect: The target is dazed until the end of its next turn.
Hit: Ongoing 10 damage (save ends).
Miss: 5 damage.


CURSE OF HEMOPHILIA --- Wizard Attack 15
Daily * Arcane, Implement, Necomancy [assumes this will be a mage school/keyword in Heroes of Shadow]
Standard Action -- Area burst 1 within 10
Target: Each creature in burst
Effect: The target is dazed until the end of your next turn.
Attack: Intelligence vs. Fortitude
Hit: Ongoing 10 damage (save ends).
Aftereffect: Ongoing 5 damage (save ends).
Miss: Ongoing 5 damage (save ends).

An alternative to the aftereffects of the 15th level version would be to add something like 2d6 + Intelligence bonus damage on a hit.

Another alternative would be to change the area to a burst 2 within 20.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

Your 15th level version might also include "All Enemies in burst" in the target line. I don't think that's too powerful at that level.

Cool spell.

 

[666Sinner666]

The level 5 version I think is fine as written. For the level 15 I would say burst 1 should be enemy only and burst 2 to all creatures. You could even write the level 15 version with both options as an "or" statement that way he could decide if he wanted to be more "risky".

Maybe an epic level version that is burst 2 enemies only as well?