One player has problems with character deaths....

[Gothic_Demon]

My players hate to lose characters too. They hate the effort and work of creating a believable character going to waste. They also realise I kill their characters based on their choices and not mine. In three years with group 1 (I'm lucky and have two groups!) I've managed one TPK and killed two other characters, and in six years with group 2 I've killed only three characters.

My players seem to accept that, as long as they are totally resposnsible for the life and death of their characters, it's really their fault and not mine.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Ahhh, now, Fate points. That's not a bad idea. Kind of a nice compromise. I'll have to look into that. The question, I guess, would be what would I give them for, and what would I allow them to be used for?

Generally, in Warhammer, because the races aren't balance, characters get different fate points depending on their race. In D&D, that's not a problem. I believe that Warhammer uses like 1d4 Fate points for starting humans.

To get more... it's like epic level stuff. Really the actions of high heroism. Maybe killing on of the 'Witch Kings' of the Midnight setting might cut it, but outside that... maybe defending a town against an orc barbarian horde or something.

 

[JesterPoet]

<snip>

I can understand developing an attachment to your PC, especially if you have a long campaign with that character, but if the fear of death is not there for you, or your character, what is the point of the game? If you did broker some kind of out of game deal with this player, could he start risking everything and winning every time? Would that be fun for you or the others?
<snip>

See, but that's the thing. I don't have to worry about that, because he won't. He's a solid enough roleplayer that he can separate out what his character would and wouldn't risk. The reward for him isn't the shiny new ring of wizardry that his character gets (as if any character in Midnight would ever see that! HA!) but the satisfaction that character development brings, and the enjoyment of seeing the story unfold through his character's eyes.

 

[Crimson_Manticore]

Fate has other plans...

I have faced something of a similar problem, with one player who gets very upset when his character dies, or even comes very close to death (I mean throw his books down and storm out upset). I realize that many of you here would suggest that I should eject such a player or find another group, but we are all close friends inside and outside the game, and that is not an option.

I have an idea that I intend to use in all my future campaigns. I will disallow raise dead / resurrection magic as a spell effect (I will also disallow save or die type spells to maintain balance), but I will allow resurrections as a story element. I would handle it by explaining the general lack of resurrection magic to the players before the campaign starts, and also making it clear that by default, a PC who dies will remain dead. When a PC dies, I would encourage the player to create a new PC. However, I will also explain that when a PC dies, if the player is unhappy with the idea of creating a new character, then he may instead request a resurrection from the DM. I would make it clear that this is not something that should be abused, and that I retain the right to refuse a resurrection on any grounds. But so long as I feel the player was not being foolish or disruptive, I would work hard to introduce a story element whereby the dead PC would be resurrected within 3 or 4 gaming sessions. The PCs are supposed to be heroes after all, and it is not uncommon for a greater power somewhere to take a special interest in one or more of the PCs, even to the point of returning them to life if their fate has not yet been fulfilled. The resurrection may involve a unique quest by the remaining party members, or it may happen behind the scenes. This makes allowance for players who have a hard time dealing with character death, but keeps resurrection magic from becoming commonplace. Allowing a few gaming sessions to pass also puts the PC behind in XP, which approximates level loss without all the hassle of actually removing a level. While waiting for the resurrection, the player would be given an NPC to play or allowed to play a temporary character or cohort.

On the surface, this option may sound like a hard fit for a Midnight campaign, since there aren’t any good gods to return the character to life. However, it wouldn’t be hard to come up with other, more innovative ideas for story-driven resurrections. Perhaps the land itself groans beneath the rule of the dark lord, and has chosen a champion. Perhaps it is fate. The character was born under a certain sign and he bears a powerful fate that cannot be denied, even by death. Perhaps there is a powerful entity trapped on the world by the Sundering, and it has its own plans for the PC.

Anyway, this may not be the solution you were looking for, but it’s something to think about.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

First off, I think you need to talk to the person individually. I don;t think you should give special favors to him, but explain the concern you have, ideas about things like fate points etc. and between the two of you, decide how to approach the subject to the rest of the group.

Second, I'm thinking Midnight may not be the best setting to play in if character death is an issue.

Last, there has to be some degree of consequence to the game and character death is one of them. If death can only come as the result of foolish play, then why bother with the dice and rules, just make up a story as you go along. Good decisions always lead to success and kill characters that make bad decisions.

 

[Semah G Noj]

See, but that's the thing. I don't have to worry about that, because he won't. He's a solid enough roleplayer that he can separate out what his character would and wouldn't risk. The reward for him isn't the shiny new ring of wizardry that his character gets (as if any character in Midnight would ever see that! HA!) but the satisfaction that character development brings, and the enjoyment of seeing the story unfold through his character's eyes.

One of the best moments of our last Midnight Campaign was roleplaying a wake for a fallen character. Everyone gave earnest praise for the dead character and how he had fallen. It was in no small part due to the setting and the fatalism that it creates that this was as effective as it was. There are other rewards than levels and magical shiny things in this game we play.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Jester:

I'm pretty sure Diaglo's post was in jest. In a similar thread, another poster remarked how the most common response to player-DM-group conflicts was almost always "Kick the bum out!"

So, it's funny that his suggestion is to kick him out. Humerous ...

*cricket, cricket*

 

[ST]

You have a disconnect in the way your players view the risk of character death. That's not so bad, as things go. I certainly don't think it means you need to keep him out of the group.

Honestly, I'd take him aside and tell him "Hey, here's the thing. I'm not going to kill off any of the PCs -- I've got much more interesting ways to cause them grief. But don't tell the other players, because they like the feeling that their character's life is on the line."

It'd be one thing if you felt really strongly about the issue, but it sounds like your own opinion falls squarely between the two camps, so a compromise seems like a great idea.

As far as the idea of Fate points, I'd consider some sort of odd prophecy that seems to suggest that this group of heroes might be the ones to make a true difference against the Shadow. Then you could give them some Fate points when they do things that seem to fulfill the prophecy (including simply surviving great crises), and let them spend them to, say, automatically stabilize, or automatically succeed on a given roll, or what have you. Even if they're only useful to keep the character alive, they could sort of represent this eerie feeling that someone is watching out for them.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

He needs to accept the risk that his character might die.

I run a low magic game in which you cannot be raised or resurrected except by artifact level magic or by divine intervention (neither of which has happened yet). One thing I give each character is 1 hand of god. They can use it to save their character from certain death. The next time you mess up however you're dead.
I don't like killing characters but I don't like not killing them either.

 

[maddman75]

I'm sympathetic to this player. Character death doesn't bother me too much, except that if it happens a lot I'm not going to be putting a lot of effort into your game. Why should I? Any development I do will just be crushed by a bad roll. Its a matter of what you want out of the game.

This is where I came to when thinking about my homebrew. Two things really, really bother me. One is the easy ways to come back from the dead. The other is the requirement to have clerics in the group. So I came up with some new hit point/death rules to make the game less deadly.

- First, understand that IMC hit points are more a measure of endurance. Loss of hit points may mean small cuts, scrapes, and bruises, but no serious injury.
- Hit points are regained with the heal skill, a la NWN - whatever you roll is how many hp you get back. Heal is a class skill for everyone (and I give everyone 2 more skill points as well)
- When you go from 0 to -10-CON mod-level, you are disabled. From that point to -hit point total you are unconscious and dying. Below 2x hit points and you roll Fort saves to keep from dying off.
- If you get to dying, there will be long term effects. These could include loss of ability points, movement penalties, or loss of a level.

This is mechanically identical to the PC getting "killed" then poofed back by a spell. It just doesn't feel so unnatural, and oddly saves the PCs money. I haven't playtested this yet, but it may make for a good compromise. There is still the threat of PC death, but its unlikely.

I also use Action Points and have an exception to this in the "Boromir Rule". A disabled or dying character may use all his action points to rise to his feet for several rounds and fight at his full health to give his friends a last chance. When the scene is over, however, the character falls and irrevocably dies.

Those might work for you. You shouldn't have to fight against the rules. Change them until they make sense for you.