One player has problems with character deaths....

[JesterPoet]

Do you have any other wisdom to pass down to us mere mortals about how we should enjoy our games? If you view the game as a contest to be won or lost then I suppose random character death would be desireable. I'm not going to tell you that yours is the wrong way to play, just that I enjoy something different.

Quiet! You clearly have no business gaming at all, so you're no longer welcome here.

 

[S'mon]

From my experience I'd say Midnight as a setting is peculiarly unsuited to casual/random character death. It is not a standard kick-in-the-door-roll-up-new-PC setting, it very much depends on theme, mood & rich characterisation. The players need to _care_ about these people - PC & NPC.

>>OOC fear of death is a great motivator for some of them, and I, personally, think it is integral to to Midnight campaign setting.<<

I'd say the opposite - IC fear of death is integral, OOC fear is actively harmful - although it depends on the feel you're going for. If you want Midnight as 'Paranoia' you'll want dozens of dead PCs. If you want a great mythic epic of hope, loss and perseverance against overwhelming darkness, dead PCs suck.

One possibility is to use Fate Points as in the Conan OGL game, Midnight PCs are already 'special' (Heroic Paths) so these fit fine IMO.

Maybe go to the Forge and check out Stalkingblue's threads on Narrativist Midnight using Heroquest -http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewforum.php?f=13
If you asked nicely she could probably give you great advice.
There might also be useful stuff at aggainstheshadow.org

 

[S'mon]

BTW what is your actual PC death rate? When I played Midnight we had a PC dead every couple of sessions on average (the phrase 'Orc Vardatch' still makes me go *brrr*) so the entire initial 6-PC party was dead in about 6 months, which really screwed up continuity and greatly harmed the campaign IMO.

Here's my own Fate Point rule, adapted from Ian Sturrock's Conan:

Fate Points
I'm using narrative Fate Points similar to those in the Conan RPG. PCs start with 3, most commonly they are used on the player's behalf for the PC to be 'left for dead' after losing a fight (a common occurrence at first level!). They can also be used by GM or on the player's request to get a 'lucky break' in a dire situation, eg help with escaping captivity, a sudden distraction & such. FPs can be gained for major achievements related to the PC's personality & goals, the GM can also award fate points at his discretion if the PC is "screwed over by fate", eg being arrested for a crime they didn't commit.

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

I might have this all wrong, but I figured that the schtick to a midnight type game is that your charcters cannot ever 'win' and that you will die sometime?

IMO, the really interesting part of playing in the setting is working up towards the most meaningful and heroic death you can achieve?

Could you sell him on that as a slightly different angle to play his character from?


How important is it to run Midnight? What would you and/or the other players thing of another setting? There's a ton of cool stuff out there, after all?

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Fate Points are a good work around.

In my Steampunk game I added the possibility for the loss of a limb instead of death for a failed Massive Damage check. (1 action point, then roll to see which limb gets left behind.) Then again, a lot of weapons in Steampunk deal damage x10 and Massive Damage is equal to the character's Con... Death by hit point loss I leave in place.

The Auld Grump

 

[Clueless]

I don't think anyone's mentioned it yet - but your approach to the problem is one I haven't seen in a lot of places before and one I find admirable. You understand that your job as GM is to make the players enjoy a session and you noticed when the enjoyment factors of players didn't synch up (one doesn't enjoy too great a risk of death, the others like the adreniline rush). It's a good GM who can spot that and decide to think of a conscious way to approach it without just dismissing the concern - and indirectly dismissing the player's enjoyment as less important.

More than likely a combination of assurance "I enjoy screwing your character up in more ways than death - so don't worry too much, if you do something stupid that's when you're at more risk - and you're smarter than that." combined with Fate Points should handle it. That handles the two major non-player controlled aspects of PC death - the first being the GM who may go out to kill characters, and the second being a bad day with the dice.

 

[JesterPoet]

BTW what is your actual PC death rate? When I played Midnight we had a PC dead every couple of sessions on average (the phrase 'Orc Vardatch' still makes me go *brrr*) so the entire initial 6-PC party was dead in about 6 months, which really screwed up continuity and greatly harmed the campaign IMO.

We haven't had a PC death yet, but we've only played through Crown of Shadow. We came close once, and go figure it was the player who this thread is about. But I'm going to run it as an extended campaign now, so this is more of a concern.

I might have this all wrong, but I figured that the schtick to a midnight type game is that your charcters cannot ever 'win' and that you will die sometime?

IMO, the really interesting part of playing in the setting is working up towards the most meaningful and heroic death you can achieve?

Could you sell him on that as a slightly different angle to play his character from?


How important is it to run Midnight? What would you and/or the other players thing of another setting? There's a ton of cool stuff out there, after all?

It depends on how you want to run it. You can run it as a "The characters will never come out on top" scenario, or you can run it where your heroes are the glimmer of hope in the overwhelming darkness. We're somewhere in the middle. My players might be a glimmer of hope in overwhelming darkness.

Some people would see the point as working towards a meaningful death, but it doesn't have to be that way. I don't think that's what my players are looking for.

As for a different setting... nah. Midnight works well, and it is more adaptable than many people think. This is not an unsolvable problem. It's just a matter of finding the best way to work things out. They all like Midnight, A LOT.

I don't think anyone's mentioned it yet - but your approach to the problem is one I haven't seen in a lot of places before and one I find admirable. You understand that your job as GM is to make the players enjoy a session and you noticed when the enjoyment factors of players didn't synch up (one doesn't enjoy too great a risk of death, the others like the adreniline rush). It's a good GM who can spot that and decide to think of a conscious way to approach it without just dismissing the concern - and indirectly dismissing the player's enjoyment as less important.

Thanks! I appreciate you mentioning that.

That's why I more or less dismiss notions of kicking him out, or telling him that this is just the way it is. He's a great roleplayer, and that's an asset to our group. By not being flexible, I do more damage to the group than good. There is a solution here. I'm sure I could have come up with one on my own, but I can come up with a better one with the assistance of others. That's why I came here.

 

[Crothian]

Play Paranoia for a while, that usually gives players a great perspective on what character death is truely about.

I like the fate point idea.

 

[Campbell]

On a rules-related tangent you might want to consider the Death and dying variant from UA. It preserves the 'knock them out of the fight' element, thus preserving encounter balance, while making actual character death a relatively rare occurance.

 

[S'mon]

I might have this all wrong, but I figured that the schtick to a midnight type game is that your charcters cannot ever 'win' and that you will die sometime?

This is kinda true, but using the RAW 'sometime' tends to become 'every few weeks'. If you think of a novel like 1984 or Terry Gilliam's Brazil, the protagonists survive until the last act. Even in Blake's 7, protagonist death was rare until the last ep. It's the constant PC churn that kills the mood of a Midnight campaign played for more than a couple of sessions - BTW I don't think Wil Upchurch & co ever played a long-term Midnight game, this might be part of the problem. The rules as written don't support the mood & feel of the setting.