One player has problems with character deaths....

[S'mon]

It depends on how you want to run it. You can run it as a "The characters will never come out on top" scenario, or you can run it where your heroes are the glimmer of hope in the overwhelming darkness. We're somewhere in the middle. My players might be a glimmer of hope in overwhelming darkness.

I think that's the best way to run it, and also I think that's the core approach of the game (leaving aside the free Netbook of DC 30 Diseases, or whatever it's called). That was how our campaign worked too, except the Ftr-2 Orcs kept Vardatching us to shreds - my PC was the last to die, she made Ftr-6th before an Enlarged orc Sleepless full-attacked her to death during an attack on an orc-held stockade in Erethor (I didn't notice it was a Sleepless - looked like all the other cardboard counters to me...). Cool game, *sigh*

If you haven't had a PC death yet, you're definitely doing something right. I found that using Fate Points takes the pressure off, by preventing arbitrary death-by-die roll. A PC who spends a FP to not die from damage is unconscious but won't die immediately - unless under a stone block, in lava or somesuch - any kind of continuous damage will kill them. They appear dead to casual (NPC) examination, but can be revived by healing magic that restores them to positive hp (in Conan they're at -10 hp, I let them go under -10), or will wake up if they make a DC 20 Fort save after 1 hour, otherwise remain unconscious.

 

[ARandomGod]

If he simply doesn't like rethinking and redoing a different character, have another character look just like him appear.

If he's high enough level you can do something similiar to a phylactery for the character. He dies he goes back there.

If he's not high enough level, you can STILL do something similiar to a phylactery. Just put several strings on it. Something that he'll have to work to overcome.

I once did something like that in a game. Gave a character a curse, a connection to an artifact similiar to a phylactery, which was in the control of the very biggest BBEG that was the group's main nemisis. Now, he's fine as long as he doesn't die... and even if he does all that happens is he comes back as an undead who's not got a lot of his will controlled by the group's main enemy. No biggie. Then all he has to do is hide that from the party, and find a way to overcome the potential mind control, and some way to get that phylactery thing! Now there's a major quest. But he'll never, ever "die". He might wind up slaughtering the party, or being the reason they didn't "win" in the end, he might end up eternally damned. But he won't die.

 

[Arnwyn]

It definitely looks like you put some thought into your situation.

I'm fine with just letting his character live. But how do I present that to the group? Do we discuss it openly (I'm worried that this will be somewhat embarassing for the one player who wants things different, so it would seem an uncomfortable rule) or do I just fudge in his favor and let him stay alive? The other players know how he feels, so they are unlikely to miss why it is being done, but I doubt that they would be upset (though I can't be 100% sure). Or do I present it at the table? "Who wants to risk death, and who wants me to work around character death for them?" Could that even work?

Realistically, I think (read: IMO) that your first option is the best ("discuss it openly"). The outcome will really depend on your current group's dynamics - this could very much be a 'majority rules' situation.

It's also possible that it could be uncomfortable for that one player who does want things different - but that's life. If he wants to go in a different direction, then he's got to face the consequences with the rest of the group and suck it up. It could all work out fine if everyone is on board with his personal tastes.

Open discussion, for sure - that way, everyone can discuss the situation.

 

[kigmatzomat]

I'm on the side of *not* nerfing the game. Look, some people don't enjoy some settings and I don't think you should rewrite a perfectly good setting because one person isn't at 100% fun quotient.

I, personally, loathe all things Ravenloft with a white-hot fury that probably eclipses Diaglo's "hat of d02" by a few astronomical orders of magnitude. (I've wound up in Ravenloft games 3 times, each time the DM did it as a surprise and my character was always one of the "screwed" classes; paladins, psionicists, etc and the DMs refused to swap out any characters once the game started. It's more than likely I just hate Ravenloft DMs.)

Not an exact comparison, but the fact remains that not every player will have a mega-happy fun time with every system/setting out there. You shouldn't diminish the rest of the players' enjoyment for this one guy; he should either cope with it being "enjoyable, but less so" or wait for a campaign more to his liking.

 

[apesamongus]

Second, I'm thinking Midnight may not be the best setting to play in if character death is an issue.

Why?

Setting only effects how common and serious death is from a character perspective, it has nothing to do with whether or not death is possible from a player perspective.

Last, there has to be some degree of consequence to the game

Why?

You shouldn't make broad sweeping statements like that without at least trying to back it up.

 

[coyote6]

I'd go with the Fate/Karma/Hero points. IMO, it's a great way to take the sting off of what might otherwise be too deadly a system or setting.

(Myself, if I ever run a Midnight campaign, I think I'll use Exalted, and have the PCs Exalt in the first adventure. )

 

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

You could also use the Risen Martyr PrC from the Book of Exalted Deeds. It would give him a chance to come back from an unfortunate death, and give him ten levels to come up with a new PC.

 

[Von Ether]

Check out the "Death Definance" feat in d20 Adventure! The feat never lets a PC die, but penalizes character death with some downtime during the game. The player makes up a story of how he was left for dead, the PC body was never found or he was rescued at the last minute off-screen. A enteraining story reduces the downtime.

If you want to be harsher, refuse him XP on the adventure he dies so he doesn't get ahead in levels if PC death is common in your game. Or you could dock him a level.

This way he never has to make a new concept, but death is still something to avoid. It also cost him a feat slot so there is some cost to the benifit.

 

[Jim Hague]

I'm most assuredly in the PC death camp, especially for a game like Midnight. As some flak's been levelled at previous posters for not 'backing up' their opinion, here's why:

*Verisimillitude: The Midnight setting is dark, it's grim, it's gritty. Death is everywhere, and worse still, death is not the end - the dead can rise as undead horrors to plague the living. Removing the possibility of death removes a major setting element.

*Fairness: You've got a single player asking for an exception in the rules. That's a pretty serious violation of GM/DM neutrality as far as playing square with the other players goes. Nuh uh.

*Challenge: The fear of death or serious injury to a PC is an excellent motivator. I've seen this in action in my Conan: Dark Thuria game. Fights are a hell of a lot more exciting if you've got something to lose.

In all honesty, tell this player 'no'. They've got to abide by the same rules as everyone else, no matter what they bring to the table. I really don't see the problem with coming up with a new character, and I'm the sort that gets fairly attached to my own PCs when playing. Extending that further, you are responsible for all the players' fun - and making an exception for one person who just can't handle a character death is stepping over the line.

 

[JesterPoet]

I'm most assuredly in the PC death camp, especially for a game like Midnight. As some flak's been levelled at previous posters for not 'backing up' their opinion, here's why:

*Verisimillitude: The Midnight setting is dark, it's grim, it's gritty. Death is everywhere, and worse still, death is not the end - the dead can rise as undead horrors to plague the living. Removing the possibility of death removes a major setting element.

There's a lot to reply to here, so I'm going to take it a bit at a time.

Removing the possibility of death does remove a major setting element. Yet, reducing the likelyhood of PC death does not inherently do so. I'm not sure what your gaming group is like, but in my group, I have a number of gamers who are able to keep the fear of death in their PCs through solid roleplaying, while not needing the fear of character death OOC to motivate such strategies. I don't believe that IC and OOC fear of death have to be the same thing. I would even go so far as to say that, IMO, the requirement that the two be linked is a sign of poor roleplaying. The players can suffer other punishments as well, so it becomes even less of an issue for us when you take that into consideration.

*Fairness: You've got a single player asking for an exception in the rules. That's a pretty serious violation of GM/DM neutrality as far as playing square with the other players goes. Nuh uh.

It is possible that I didn't make this completely clear. He has not asked for an exception. He has simply made his feelings about the uselessness of character death clear to me, and has backed it up substantially with good arguments. He wouldn't ask for an exception. If it was that important to him, he simply wouldn't play.

What is at stake, then, is that I know he's not having as much fun as he could be, due to this issue, and that's something I don't like at my table. I could solve that by making his character invulnerable to harm. I could even do that without pissing off the other players (we stick pretty solidly to the rules of "Don't let the rules get in the way of the game"... we've played too much Mutants & Masterminds not to have learned that rule). But I don't want to do that. I want to find a compromise, and I know there's one out there. So far, the Fate Points idea has seemed like a really good one.[/quote]

*Challenge: The fear of death or serious injury to a PC is an excellent motivator. I've seen this in action in my Conan: Dark Thuria game. Fights are a hell of a lot more exciting if you've got something to lose.

That's the thing that I think a lot of people aren't understanding, though. I think a good game is built around giving the characters other things to lose than just their lives. I also think that is central to the Midnight campaign setting... much more so than PC death. In a world filled with darkness and despair, where your best reward may be making sure that a friend or fellow conspirator, or lover, or family member has something to eat, or lives one more day, there is a lot more work that needs to go into building the "feel" of the game. It doesn't have to be a matter of, "I die, or I loot the corpse and get cool stuff." For this player in particular, "Not being able to rescue the child from the legates who have captured her in order to draw him out" would be a significantly more serious consequence for inaction or failure. That's not the case for every player, but it is for him. Doesn't it make sense, then, that I can build a more rewarding game by catering to that for him, and catering to what the other individuals need for their gaming experience?
[/quote]

In all honesty, tell this player 'no'. They've got to abide by the same rules as everyone else, no matter what they bring to the table. I really don't see the problem with coming up with a new character, and I'm the sort that gets fairly attached to my own PCs when playing. Extending that further, you are responsible for all the players' fun - and making an exception for one person who just can't handle a character death is stepping over the line.

Don't get me wrong... I'm by no means afraid to say, "no" when the need arises. But I don't think that "no" is the correct answer here. I think "no" would hurt my game. Just as you said... I'm responsible for all the players' fun.




SIDE NOTE - Last night, on the way to poker, one of my players reminded me that we did experience a character death. His character died the first night. For those of you who have run CoS... he opened something he shouldn't have. And didn't check it for traps first. And was the party's rogue.

I don't feel too guilty.