One thing that bothers me lately about 4E players

[Black Knight Irios]

One thing I simply can't understand are those threads where some players claim that class x or y is so weak that there must be an error in their design.
And if they post their build people start pointing out how they could improve their build. Why can't they first ask for help before they start claiming that class x is weak/useless. Just to repeat myself, instead of claiming that class x is utterly useless, ask for advice first. And my advice is ask at the WotC boards. They have boards for every role and a CharOp board. There are so many good class guides there and you can post your build and let them help to improve it.

Another thing is that some people believe that their build should be able to cover every possible base the class allows to cover and some bases that even belong to other classes. I say this once more, you can't cover every base with your char and be as efficient as someone who specializes. And don't complain if you play 18&8s that you are lacking somewhere. You have to find a way somewhere in the middle.

One thing is true, there are classes that can do something that you can do better than you. But even then they can't do everything you can do or the way you do it.
You are still not useless you are different. Are warlords useless leaders because clerics add their WIS to the healing they do? -No.

And one thing to keep in mind when comparing builds and options ATM is that only the martial power source has a power-up book. Others will follow.


I hope that some of you agree, that some change their opinion/attitude or try to gather more information before they make such a statement. And I hope no one was offended by my post.

 

[Jack99]

Ignorant players is a 4e issue now?

I do not think so. Just look in the archives.

 

[Black Knight Irios]

Take a look at the current threads at the rules board:

The starlock is to weak...
The PAL is too weak...
The Archer Ranger is too weak...
The WIZ ist too weak...

There seem to be serious cases of classes being to weak. (That's sarcasm!)

 

[Nymrohd]

And most are cases of people who suck at building characters . . .
Tbh whether a character will feel weak or not has a lot to do with who else is in your group. If Mr CharOP also playes with you, you will likely feel that something is wrong.

 

[Remathilis]

Take a look at the current threads at the rules board:

The starlock is to weak...
The PAL is too weak...
The Archer Ranger is too weak...
The WIZ ist too weak...

There seem to be a serious cases of classes being to weak.

Might I direct you to this site, circa 2004-2007

The Bard is useless.
The Monk is broken!
The Monk is Useless!
Half-orcs got the shaft!
Rangers are weak!
Fighter's get hosed.
The Mystic Theurge is too good!
The Mystic Theurge is too weak!
Fighters are too weak.
etc...

Its the nature of the internets I guess; everyone things their pet class(es) aren't good enough.

 

[PoeticJustice]

Hey guys, why don't we assume for a second that he's not flaming?

What Black Knight is saying is true. People kvetch about mechanics when they ought to ask for help instead.

People don't do that for 3.5 because the rules have been discussed to death already and little new material is being published. 4E's idiom is not as well understood, so there's more to talk about, mechanics-wise.

Calm down. Stop jumping down the poor guy's throat.

 

[Asmor]

The Bard is useless.

To be fair, bards are useless.

*ducks*

 

[Black Knight Irios]

Might I direct you to this site, circa 2004-2007

The Bard is useless.
The Monk is broken!
The Monk is Useless!
Half-orcs got the shaft!
Rangers are weak!
Fighter's get hosed.
The Mystic Theurge is too good!
The Mystic Theurge is too weak!
Fighters are too weak.
etc...

Its the nature of the internets I guess; everyone things their pet class(es) aren't good enough.

I'm well aware of those times and I remember some of those threads.

The point is not that people start a thread and complain, it is that they do so w/o first trying to improve the weak looking part (within the rules) by getting help.

And most are cases of people who suck at building characters . . .
Tbh whether a character will feel weak or not has a lot to do with who else is in your group. If Mr CharOP also playes with you, you will likely feel that something is wrong.

I have no problem with people who suck at building a good char. But I do have a problem if said people start threads and claim that class x sucks.

I posted this thread on the rules board and sadly it was moved here because I wanted those people (that start said threads on the rules board) to read this thread.

And you are right if Mr Min/Max Power Gamer plays with me than I could end up looking weak. Then again only if we play the same class or role and I contribute only damage and he is superior at doing so or whatever comparison you like to do.

 

[Jack99]

Hey guys, why don't we assume for a second that he's not flaming?

What Black Knight is saying is true. People kvetch about mechanics when they ought to ask for help instead.

People don't do that for 3.5 because the rules have been discussed to death already and little new material is being published. 4E's idiom is not as well understood, so there's more to talk about, mechanics-wise.

Calm down. Stop jumping down the poor guy's throat.

When you start a thread making sweeping generalization as the OP did, you are asking for it.

Either way, I do agree with him on most points. I just do not see it as a 4e issue. This is has been a common thing since forever. You see it on every board for every RPG and MMORPG. People whining about how X class sucks.

It's just a part of life and the internet.

 

[avin]

Funny thing is: why people rush to assume is edition wars and decide to "defend" their side like there's no tomorrow?

Stop defending editions. Pretty please?