OotS 448

[Falkus]

If I had to guard that throne room, I'd have put an anti-magic field in it. Maybe several carefully placed to allow magic in the center, if the gate itself had to be kept in a magic allowed area. The nature of the gate means that those most likely to want to destroy/use it will be arcane or divine spell casters.

 

[SPoD]

How is the word "offensively" defined in the RAW?

Oh, wait, it isn't? Then I guess it's a DM judgment call as to what is "offensive" and what isn't.

 

[Dark Dragon]

Seems pretty clear-cut to me. The examples it gives are just that - examples. Not an exhaustive list. You can't use a Symbol spell offensively, as Xykon did here.

Fair enough, must have overlooked that . Nevertheless, as was mentioned, there seems to be some contradiction within the spell description.
At least it is debatable. As a DM I'd allow Xykon's tactic, a very costly level 8 spell should be able to do something

 

[LoneWolf23]

Is it just me -- a relative newcomer to the strip, and thus threads regarding it -- or does nothing suck the fun out of the comic like over-analyzed mechanical explanations for stuff that happens in-panel? i mean, i realize that the whole point is that it runs by the rules, but isn't it enough to say, "hey, he cast symbol of insanity on those paladins and they all failed their saves. GUFAW!"?

I agree. If it had been a Player coming up with something like that against a bunch of NPC enemies, Xykon would be praised for his creative use of a PHB spell...

 

[GravyFingerz]

I seem to be in the minority, but I loved the Symbol of Insanity tactic used by Xykon, and I'd let a PC use it in my game. It's clever, stylish, and extremely effective. Balderdash to what the SRD says; the DM is allowed to use DM fiat to allow or to do extremely cool things like bouncing balls with symbols of insanity.

I think this was a good strip for several reasons already mentioned here. And while I do not discourage discussion of the mechanics of OotS, I believe it is a web comic first, and then a D&D simulation second, and thus stuff you guys are calling "lame" is perfectly fine with me.

That, and this strip was mildly disturbing, which is sort of unusual for the strip. Usually it is disturbing in a funny way. There was nothing funny about this strip, it just showed off how badass Xykon is, and that a room full of paladins is no match for an uber-level lich.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I rather like the Symbol of Insanity as an opening move. I can accept the Confusion-lock effect for the joys of Paladin-on-Paladin slaughter (even if we usually do not use that interpretation for all the obvious reasons).

But it was still a let down for me.

This is the Big Battle that these Paladins have been preparing for for centuries. I know these guys are just NPCs, but I was expecting to see them acquit themselves a bit better, even if the end result was never in doubt.

Looking at the rules nitty-gritty...

Yes, I would expect the DC to be of the spell to be circa 26. Even a 1st level Paladin could have a Will save boosted up to the +7 to +9 range. Higher level Paladins could go way up higher -- it is not exactly rare for a buffed Paladin to have the highest Will save in an adventuring party.

So I would expect the Symbol to have no noticeable effect on half the room in the first round.

Another thing: Paladins fighting Paladins? Not too impressive. A lot of the stacked up Paladin effects work well against Evil, but not so well against Good.

In the big picture, I am perfectly okay with bending the rules when it feels right dramatically, and I am perfectly okay with having a weird result by adhering to the rules. This strip did not quite feel right by either yardstick IMHO.

 

[RedFox]

I seem to be in the minority, but I loved the Symbol of Insanity tactic used by Xykon, and I'd let a PC use it in my game. It's clever, stylish, and extremely effective. Balderdash to what the SRD says; the DM is allowed to use DM fiat to allow or to do extremely cool things like bouncing balls with symbols of insanity.

I think this was a good strip for several reasons already mentioned here. And while I do not discourage discussion of the mechanics of OotS, I believe it is a web comic first, and then a D&D simulation second, and thus stuff you guys are calling "lame" is perfectly fine with me.

That, and this strip was mildly disturbing, which is sort of unusual for the strip. Usually it is disturbing in a funny way. There was nothing funny about this strip, it just showed off how badass Xykon is, and that a room full of paladins is no match for an uber-level lich.

I agree wholeheartedly, save for the disturbing part. This strip was hilarious. The gleeful, crazy-eyed look the paladins had while hacking each other apart was priceless.

Plus, it's a super bouncy ball!

 

[Grog]

I seem to be in the minority, but I loved the Symbol of Insanity tactic used by Xykon, and I'd let a PC use it in my game. It's clever, stylish, and extremely effective. Balderdash to what the SRD says; the DM is allowed to use DM fiat to allow or to do extremely cool things like bouncing balls with symbols of insanity.

So Xykon won because the DM decided he would win. Isn't that the very complaint that some people here are voicing?

(Not that he couldn't have won in other ways, with other spells, of course).

If Xykon is going to win because of DM fiat, I think a much better way to handle it would have been for him to walk right into the horde of paladins and say "Look, you guys are NPCs. I don't even have to roll dice to kill you." It would have been funnier, and it would have fit the spirit of OotS better.

 

[Grog]

How is the word "offensively" defined in the RAW?

Oh, wait, it isn't? Then I guess it's a DM judgment call as to what is "offensive" and what isn't.

There is no possible way that Xykon's use of the Symbol of Insanity in this strip could be seen as anything other than offensive.

 

[WhatGravitas]

Ah, it was a good one. Xykon was destined to win, by story, and by D&D rules. That way, it looked hilarious! Me likes it. Otherwise... well Dispel Magic through the cracks of the windows, time stop, delayed fireball ad nauseam, finishing with wail of the banshee in the next round, with a previously cast improved invisibility would had a similar effect, and certainly in the range of Xykon's power. But not half as funny.