OotS 448

[Pielorinho]

Posting as a member, not as a moderator:

I thought it was pretty disturbing, and pretty funny. Rich has said explicitly that the comic moves at the speed of plot. I think this declaration puts paid to all rules questions.

So Xykon won because the DM decided he would win.

As near as I can tell, this strip lacks a DM, inasmuch as it lacks a player; it has only an author. Criticizing the author for being a poor DM confuses me, although it's a complaint I've seen levied against the strip before. There are no players to be screwed by a DM here, and there's no DM to screw a player, appearances notwithstanding. The two forms are extremely different, to the extent that I don't think they can be considered the same medium, let alone the same genre. Analogizing between them is like analogizing between theater and conversation, I think, and getting irritated at one's inability to tell Juliet that Romeo is only sleeping.

Daniel

 

[interwyrm]

Then you have a very strange definition of the word "offensively." By your definition, a medusa's gaze isn't an offensive weapon.

Again, you fail to see the difference. The ball isn't looking at the paladins. The paladins are looking at the ball. The spell is ALWAYS offensive in the sense that it does some harm to the recipient.

Wolv0rine is dead on about the 10ft tall symbol and calling it to their attention. The bouncy ball serves two purposes: to attract attention, and to be funny.

Finally, the strip isn't disturbing in the slightest. It's funny - hilarious even. How can people find it disturbing when they routinely roleplay characters burninating/slicing/dicing/etc. creatures all the time. None of the characters that actually died (except for the wizard) ever had any lines.

 

[Grog]

Ohhhkay... let's see:
Dictionary.com says:
1. causing resentful displeasure; highly irritating, angering, or annoying: offensive television commercials.

=> Therefore using symbol of insanity is not possible, if the spell is used in a "highly irritating, angering, or annoying" way, right?

Um, did you miss all the other definitions there, like this one?

5. characterized by attack; aggressive: offensive warfare.

My point stands.

 

[Grog]

Again, you fail to see the difference. The ball isn't looking at the paladins. The paladins are looking at the ball.

You could say the same thing about a medusa. You have to look at it for its gaze to harm you. Therefore, by your definition, a medusa's gaze isn't an offensive weapon.

The spell is ALWAYS offensive in the sense that it does some harm to the recipient.

That's not what offensive means. Check the definition I posted earlier.

 

[Pielorinho]

That's not what offensive means. Check the definition I posted earlier.

Grog, I wonder if you wouldn't mind explaining what an inoffensive use of the spell would look like--especially an inoffensive use of the spell that comes right up to, but does not cross, the line.

Daniel

 

[Vanuslux]

Um, did you miss all the other definitions there, like this one?

5. characterized by attack; aggressive: offensive warfare.

My point stands.

I think the point the other poster was making was that there's no way to use Symbol of Insanity that doesn't match up to at least one of the definitions of "offensive", therefore since the spell is clearly meant to be used the writer must have intended a narrower meaning of the word "offensive" than the whole of the dictionary definition.

 

[Celebrim]

I've already had my say on this thread, but a brief comment on 'Symbols' and the angry sub-thread developing here.

All the symbol spells are IMO fundamentally broken and in need of some rethinking.

The 'no offensive use' clause is a poorly thought out and poorly justifiable attempt to keep them from being broken. It relies basically on DM fiat to arbitrarily stamp out uses that would be problimatic, for example permenent symbols of death on ones sword or permenant symbols of insanity scribed on ones shield. But really, its just hand waving the fact that the spell can be used in ways that it was not 'intended' to be used, and when that happens its arguably no longer balanced for a spell of its level.

The whole 'no offensive uses' is an attempt to restrict the use of the spell to the implicit intention of the spell, that is that the symbol is scribed on an immobile surface and used as a trap (hense the casting time). The spell needs to be rewritten that way because the intent of the definition 'immobile' is clear and easily understood (if you move it, it ends the spell), whereas the definition of 'offensive' is not only here completely arbitrary but also self-contrictory. Symbol is an offensive spell for crying out loud; all uses of it are in some sense offensive.

 

[Pielorinho]

The spell needs to be rewritten that way because the intent of the definition 'immobile' is clear and easily understood (if you move it, it ends the spell), whereas the definition of 'offensive' is not only here completely arbitrary but also self-contrictory. Symbol is an offensive spell for crying out loud; all uses of it are in some sense offensive.

I kinda like that, actually: requiring the symbol's inscription on an immobile surface, and ruling that any movement of the surface renders the symbol inert, would make it much more reasonable. Great idea!

Daniel

 

[Piratecat]

So Xykon won because the DM decided he would win.

Of course he did! There weren't any PCs in the throne room. If two sets of NPCs face off, the one who wins is the one the DM wanted to win.

 

[Humanaut]

Offensive

I, me, personally, see the intent of Symbol spells to be put somewhere, on something, and some poor schmuck comes by and says "ooooh, what's This?" and BOOM! (You lifted the drapes, passed under the doorway... See where i'm going?) You voluntarily interact with it or something like that. To toss it at them, kinda forces it into play. I do think there is a lot of gray area there. And DM's are free to do what they want. My original post, #16 ish, was just curious how others would rule. I'd say no. Bouncing ball a clever use, even funny, but wouldn't fly in my game.

Final thought: wwwwwwwwwwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!