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OotS 599 is up

It's not the multitude of plot lines that's annoying (although I miss Roy, he was/is my favorite character); rather, it's the increasing density of the prose that is annoying.

If you measured the ratio of pixels in text balloons to the total number of pixels in the strip, or even just simply the number of words per panel, you'd find that the amount of text is greatly increasing over time. It's probably three times what it was in the early days and it shows no end of slowing down.
 

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The perfect Order of the Stick example: Varsuuvius's gender. Some people think he's male, some people think she's female, some people think elves don't have human-like gender; some people think Haley knows for sure what V's gender is, some people think Haley assumes V is one or the other. All of these interpretation of the comic strip are created by the readers, and everyone sees the same pieces of dialogue and artwork as supporting their theory!

Actually, that's a terrible example. The debate about V's gender is by design. It is in fact one of Rich's recurring plot points throughout the strips history.
 

Actually, that's a terrible example. The debate about V's gender is by design. It is in fact one of Rich's recurring plot points throughout the strips history.

That's because he took something the fans came up with and ran with it.

In the commentary to one of the books--Dungeon Crawling Fools, I think--he admits that he never meant V's gender to be a question. But when he realized early on that it was a point of discussion and debate among the fans, he decided to turn it into a running joke/plot point.

So yeah, it began early, but it wasn't part of his original design, and it did, indeed, originate with the audience.
 

That's because he took something the fans came up with and ran with it.

In the commentary to one of the books--Dungeon Crawling Fools, I think--he admits that he never meant V's gender to be a question. But when he realized early on that it was a point of discussion and debate among the fans, he decided to turn it into a running joke/plot point.

So yeah, it began early, but it wasn't part of his original design, and it did, indeed, originate with the audience.

I still need to buy the books. I've been meaning to forever...

In any case, he could have resolved that question when it came up, but he instead embraced it and it became part of the 'lore' of the story. Players controlling the OotS has never been part of the story and one person claims that Rich specifically denied their existence. (No idea where that is though.) That, however is apparently irrelevant because if someone thinks they interpret players in the sub-plot then they exist whether Rich wants them to or not? I think that's taking literary theory a bit over the edge. I mean, my understanding is that it applies to an authors symbolism and influence not plot points that simply don't exist. Granted, my lit classes are far in my past, but still...
 

Oh please, I don't think V is going to accept some crooked deal from a two bit imp...unless the imp offers an expresso machine, which I don't think it's going to do.

Personally, I'm with V. Maybe the other PCs should stop focusing on their assumed responsibility to the Azure refugees and their paladin overlords and try to get back together and stop the evil lich trying to take over the world? Or raise their dead friend?

Hanging around with a bunch of aimless refugees with no plan who, for some reason, continued to allow one of their own number to try and kill them with no repercussions seems like a losing strategy. Another losing strategy is to ban the best school of magic in the game, and to be a race with a Con penalty, so that's not much help.
 

It's not the multitude of plot lines that's annoying (although I miss Roy, he was/is my favorite character); rather, it's the increasing density of the prose that is annoying.

If you measured the ratio of pixels in text balloons to the total number of pixels in the strip, or even just simply the number of words per panel, you'd find that the amount of text is greatly increasing over time. It's probably three times what it was in the early days and it shows no end of slowing down.

Are we reading the same comic?

Order of the Stick has always, always been a phenomenally text-heavy strip. It's practically the Planescape: Torment of webcomics.

That usually turns me off of a comic, but OotS's barrage of speech balloons are invariably well-written and entertaining. Nonetheless, it is something I've always noticed distinctly.
 

Hammerhead more or less said what I wanted to. I find it interesting and amusing that so many people think V is annoying and that s/he is somehow in the wrong. Personally I feel Durkon and Elan are way more in the wrong here. Seriously, does nobody else think that they have their priorities way screwed up when Durkon specifically says that they just can't leave these people...to save the world...??? How is there any question of priority or duty?

As far as I'm concerned, saving the WORLD comes before the well-being of the citizens of ONE city. While V may not be going about it the right way, at least his plans involve trying to take steps to getting closer to saving the world, while Durkon and Elan seem content to just wander around aimlessly on those boats. Honestly, of all the the characters, I expected Durkon to have a little more loyalty to his comrades than he's been showing, and I would have certainly expected Elan to be desperately trying to get back to Haley.
 


If I ever get a chance to write a paper on this aspect of the comic strip for one of my graduate symposiums I will be sure to send you a copy, because I am fairly certain that if I sat down with the entire run (or even a sizable arc), I could come up with lots of things that indicate just that. . .
If you wrote that paper I would be tempted to write another in order to refute it.

There is simply no real justification for thinking that there are players behind the scenes based on the information you get from the strip itself. Every decision made by the PCs is rooted entirely in their own motivations, goals, and histories. The characters completely lack any kind of metagame awareness beyond the game's ruleset. The characters never show any signs of acting out of character for the sake of achieving player goals. The characters never act on knowledge they should not have. For all intents and purposes the PCs are their own players: Roy's player is Roy himself.

Keep in mind that any metagame knowledge available to the players is equally available to the NPCs. As such, though a PC vs. NPC distinction is made, there is no functional difference made between the two. For example, Hinjo's status as a PC vs. NPC is impossible to determine at present, and even characters like the Sylph girl severely distort that line. Any such determinations would be merely a guess made by the reader with no evidence to support either way.

This gets even more interesting when you look at the idea of there being a DM. As a whole, there is even less evidence for a DM's existence than there is for the players.

There are a number of details about the game that just don't make sense assuming a "players and DM playing a game" concept. A lot of the stuff about memory wipes and the Oracle's prophecies, for example.

Another factor is that the comic dwells heavily on characters that it would not if this were a game. We see complex interactions between characters like the shadow creature, Redcloak, and O'Chuul that simply would never occur in a real game. These scenes make sense only if you assume the game world is a real, living world (or the DM is a bit touched in the head, which is not what I think Mr. Burlew is aiming at).

Anyways, I can point to a number of webcomics that lean various different ways, both as "the game world is a real world", "the game world is a product of a game", or various hybrids between the two that don't make much sense as either. Actually, most fall into the third, but for reasons that are not a factor in Order of the Stick.

It is a videogame comic, not a D&D comic, but other than two places in the entire comic (both at the very end), Adventurers! makes the same assumption that Order of the Stick does: that the the characters can act with the same information as a player of the game would, but acts entirely with their own motivations. The divide between "player" and "game character" is simply ignored or removed entirely. This is actually how most of the humor of that comic is derived: pointing out how absurd a player's actions would seem if they were actually presented as a game character's motivation.
 


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