OotS #707 is up

[StreamOfTheSky]

Wow, even today, when in the current edition of D&D "elves" refers to a bunch of nature loving hippies (as it should be) and not even the haughty "I'm better than you" Eladrin...

Still so much jealously and hatred. So sad.

 

[Leatherhead]

Well, given that Cadfan's version at least matches what was seen on panel, that alone makes it preferable to this interpretation. Where does he "show", as opposed to speculate, about how the hobgoblin is a weasel (much less a "weasle", whatever that is), or "get the paladins to approve?". The paladins are talking, in the last panel, about actively hiding this from their leadership.

Pardon my typo.

But if the hobgoblin isn't lying (to save himself or to become a spy, as pointed out by the elf), then he is a self-admitted bigot who is in jail for a hate crime. You are not supposed to sympathize with the hobgoblin any way that falls. And those two paladins are the ones I was talking about. They approve of the murder by way of praising it ("Elves are awesome", a line for the reader if any I ever saw) and by trying to cover it up. If they didn't approve they would have made a report or smote the elf on the spot.

 

[Orius]

Doesn't really bother me. I hate tree-hugging hippie elves and prefer to make them a bit nastier as a shadow of their original mythological archetypes. I've had elves act ruthlessly towards goblinoids IMC, which some of my players actually found shocking. But let's take two things under consideration here:

First, in the standard D&D rules, hobgoblin are noted for hating elves. Likely if this hobgoblin had taken an elf prisoner, he'd probably kill the elf. These elves are obviously aware of that, so they pay back the fanatical racism in kind.

Second, they don't know if this hobgoblin is a spy or not, and they don't feel they have the luxury of taking the time to find out while they're trying to help liberate Azure City. So the poor schmuck ends up a casualty of war.

I'd consider this elf to be a total jerkass, but considering that he is an elf, that pretty much goes without saying.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I laughed. All philosophical or moral discussions beyond that point... are irrelevant.

 

[Bullgrit]

So what is a "proper" way to handle a probable (assured?) spy mixed in with the real prisoners?

Bullgrit

 

[Innocent Bystander]

Detect thoughts or Zone of Truth would have done the trick.

I thought the comic was funny. I also think for those that are up in arms about it really need to lighten up. It is just a comic after all.

 

[jeffh]

So what is a "proper" way to handle a probable (assured?) spy mixed in with the real prisoners?

Bullgrit

What would it be in real life? Treat him with caution and possibly even detain him, certainly. Summary execution without, not only a trial, but evidence of any kind? Not so much.

I'm pretty Chaotic compared to most people I know, but saying "screw the rules" is for clear-cut cases. That's precisely what this isn't, it's exactly the sort of situation due process is for.

The fact that the paladins feel the need to keep it behind the backs of their superiors is not a promising sign of their own confidence in the legitimacy of these actions. We have, if anything, more reason to doubt their justification than the characters do.

 

[Rechan]

Detect thoughts or Zone of Truth would have done the trick.

I thought the comic was funny. I also think for those that are up in arms about it really need to lighten up. It is just a comic after all.

I for one am not "up in arms". Just didn't find it funny, only disappointing.

 

[coyote6]

Detect thoughts or Zone of Truth would have done the trick.

Both have saving throws, and with the latter, you don't even know if an individual made the save or not (I guess you don't technically know with detect thoughts, either, but if you don't actually detect any thoughts, it's probably safe to assume they made the save).

Zone of truth is occasionally good at getting the truth from someone, but it's of little use in telling whether someone is lying or telling the truth. They'd want discern lies, but that's higher level, and still gives a save -- but since it's targeted, at least you'll know if they make it.

Also, I thought it was funny.

Also #2, I'm pretty sure the two Azurites pictured are not paladins; neither are wearing the blue cloaks, for one thing. One's not even wearing armor -- pretty sure that's a spellcaster of some sort some other type (I looked, and he is using a katana -- maybe some sort of eldritch knight?). The other's probably just a warrior. Remember, most of the paladins (all of the experienced ones) in Azure City were in the throne room to protect the gate, and were mostly slaughtered by Xykon and/or blown up by the gate. Some, like Thanh (the mustached paladin leading the resistance), were away from town when the battle went down. Aside from them and the ones that got out with Hinjo, I'm pretty sure there aren't many paladins left.

 

[Rykion]

What would it be in real life? Treat him with caution and possibly even detain him, certainly. Summary execution without, not only a trial, but evidence of any kind? Not so much.

I'm pretty Chaotic compared to most people I know, but saying "screw the rules" is for clear-cut cases. That's precisely what this isn't, it's exactly the sort of situation due process is for.

You would expect a resistance movement to jail and grant a trial to a probable spy? The most humane thing I'd expect from such a group would be to leave the suspected spy bound and gagged in the cell he was found in. Taking him anywhere near a hidden location would be potential suicide due to tracking devices, magical ones in the case of OotS. Even without a tracking device, resources would be wasted on guarding a probable spy, and the whole resistance cell would be at risk if he escaped.

I would have liked to have seen detect evil used on the Hobgoblin, but he admitted he hated greenskins and was jailed for roughing up a goblin. Calling Redcloak an interloper just reinforces the concept it was "racism" rather than any sort of moral objection. I seriously doubt he was anything but evil, and would not trust him at all.