OotS 888

[JamesonCourage]

It actually was quite interesting to know that Elan's greatest fantasy involves his parents getting back together, and not his own romantic storyline or an adventure plot. Character development is interesting... but it's no substitute for plot. Unfortunately, the last strip we had free of dream sequences was 884, which was released April 17th. Literally a month ago. That's a long time to wait for actual plot to happen, and that's why many people aren't entertained by this strip.

Of course, as I said before, if these strips were coming out at the original 3/week rate, I don't think anyone (reasonable) would be complaining. Timing matters, both in the story line and in real life. I think the next strip will be my breaking point. If it actually moves the plot along, I'll keep hanging on. But if it's still in dream sequence, it will be time to put OotS on personal hiatus again.

I'm only posting this sentence because XP comments still aren't visible, but I said "Spot on."

This is the first strip I haven't read in a long time. The desert section seemed like it dragged on forever, and I stopped reading for a while then. I might do that now, just to let things build up. I wouldn't mind if the real-life time between strips was faster (and I know he's still recovering from a wrist injury), but I just don't care about the fake stuff when there's real stuff (in the comic) going on. The pacing is too slow while there's too much going on, especially after I waited for seemingly forever for them to get out of Lizardtown.

Just my thoughts, of course. As always, play what you like

 

[Rune]

The pacing is terribly slow and frustrating to the audience.

This can't be entirely accurate, because I am part of the audience, and I am definitely not frustrated with the pacing. The pacing isn't slow in context of the overall story, just in context of impatient people looking to read each update as soon as they are posted.

To clarify, I'm not assuming you are one such person (and to clarify, also, that I try to read each comic as soon as they are posted), but, if you are--and to any who are, I would suggest that you give the comic a rest for half a year, then read till you're caught up, then give it another half year, and so on. Because, if you feel this way now, I'm pretty sure you'll feel this way again in the future.

For the rest of the audience, who appreciates the artistry of what's being presented, sequences such as the current one enrich the whole and are greatly appreciated. I would contend that very little of good story-telling is actual plot-advancement.

Or maybe he's fighting off writer's block.

Considering the depth of his detail and foreshadowing, I very much doubt that he hasn't got the whole plot laid out already.

 

[Deset Gled]

The pacing isn't slow in context of the overall story, just in context of impatient people looking to read each update as soon as they are posted.

I have to disagree with you on this point. The pacing of the overall story has slowed continuously over time, with the latest story arc being the slowest. Consider the comic counts across the different eras:

Dungeon Crawlin' Fools (First Gate arc) - 121 comics
No Cure For The Paladin Blues (Second Gate arc) - 179 comics
War and XPs (Second Gate arc) - 182 comics
Don't Split the Party (Third Gate arc) - 187 comics
Current storyline (Third Gate arc) - 215 comics, and we're still not within striking distance of a conclusion

It's undeniable that the storylines are getting more stretched out. And while we're getting a lot more side development of main characters, we're also getting more and more tangential storylines with increasingly extraneous characters . For example, Therka's (the half-orc girl) subplot and the large amount of screentime given to Enor and Gannji (the bounty hunters) have entirely zero importance to the main plot and only a passing relevance to, well, anything.

If we end up with three comics of dream sequence for each of the characters in a trance (the same time Roy got), we'll have 12 comics of fantasy. That's literally 10% of the length of the first published novel, all in pure imagination. And at the rate comics have been released in the past year, 12 comics could take 12 to 18 weeks.

The fact that people realize things are slowing down doesn't make them impatient, it makes them perceptive.

I would suggest that you give the comic a rest for half a year, then read till you're caught up, then give it another half year, and so on. Because, if you feel this way now, I'm pretty sure you'll feel this way again in the future.

For the rest of the audience, who appreciates the artistry of what's being presented, sequences such as the current one enrich the whole and are greatly appreciated.

I think you may be over-estimating the speed that the comics have been released at. If you were to go back six months in time (as you would suggest as an reasonable break time), you would only go back to comic 864. 24 comics. It took that entire time to have Belkar and Durkon encounter Malack; that's not a lot to catch up on. If you go back an entire year, you only get back to comic 853. 35 comics. That's in the middle of the Order's battle with the guild. And V has been in that friggin' hole for the entire time! You have to go back to February 19th 2012, 39 comics, to finally get back to the strip where the Order found the pyramid.

I'm all for appreciating the artistry of what's being presented. But in order to do that, it has to actually be presented. I fear we're reaching a point where that just isn't happening any more.

Look, I'll be happy to admit that this is a free webcomic, and I have little right to complain about it at all. I want to give Rich credit for the medical issues he's faced and the time he must have needed to fulfill the Kickstarter obligations. But by any measure, OotS has been moving along at a snail's pace for a long time now. You can't just blame the audience as being impatient or unappreciative when they point it out.

At this point, I've spent a lot of my time reading OotS, and I've spent real money on multiple occasions to support the it. It's fair to say that I'm invested in it, and will almost certainly read more.. eventually. But at what point does taking a "break" from the strip have the same effect as quitting it? I've taken breaks of a couple of months from OotS before, but never an entire year. If a large chunk of the reader base were to put the series on hold for the amount of times the party has currently been inside the pyramid, would the strip be able to sustain itself? Was the Kickstarter enough to keep the strip running autonomously, after you factor in all the expenses it generated? And at what length of a break will people like me lose the emotional investment and stop supporting the comic altogether?

 

[Remus Lupin]

In fairness, Rich did injure his thumb several months back and that's stymied some of his recent progress, plus I gather his overall health is not good. However, I'm sympathetic with the "get on with it!" spirit of the complaints. It would be great if he saved some of this side-stuff as bonus strips for the published books, and kept the web comic stuff fairly narrowly focused on the main plot.

But again, free web comic, Rich will do what he wants. The fact that I'm impatient is a complement to the story he's telling. I want to see it develop.

 

[freyar]

While I'm sympathetic to wanting the storyline to move on, I'd honestly just rather wish that Rich would have an extended period of good health and start pumping the strips out rapidly again. It's fine with me that the plot arcs are taking longer --- it means we will have OotS around longer!

 

[Rune]

It's undeniable that the storylines are getting more stretched out.

They're getting more fleshed out, that's for sure.

And while we're getting a lot more side development of main characters, we're also getting more and more tangential storylines with increasingly extraneous characters . For example, Therka's (the half-orc girl) subplot and the large amount of screentime given to Enor and Gannji (the bounty hunters) have entirely zero importance to the main plot and only a passing relevance to, well, anything.

I think where you and I differ most is our prioritizing of plot. To me, plot is very much over-rated in a story. It needs to be there, but it isn't necessarily the point of a story, and it certainly doesn't have to be the focus at all times. In other words, plot exists to define the characters no less than the reverse is true.

If we end up with three comics of dream sequence for each of the characters in a trance (the same time Roy got), we'll have 12 comics of fantasy.

Spoiler

I find that very unlikely, as well. For one thing, none of the strips we've seen so far are completely focused on a single character, anyway. For another, it seems clear to me that the sequence is serving a particular narrative function which we can't know the extent of yet, but part of which is to create and draw out the tension of dramatic irony, while also placing the audience in the same predicament as the Order--that we don't know what's really going on while they're trapped.

I think you may be over-estimating the speed that the comics have been released at. If you were to go back six months in time (as you would suggest as an reasonable break time), you would only go back to comic 864. 24 comics.

Half a year would be reasonable for me, 'cause after that long, I'd need to read the whole comic just to remember things anyway. And in the rereading, I'd notice details that I had missed. If half a year would not be reasonable for you, a longer period of time could work. You obviously care to know what happens in this comic (even if very little else seems relevant to you), so perhaps you should just stop reading till it's entirely finished. Because, otherwise, I think you're going to be frustrated again. And again. And again. Because, all of those things I was saying about plot earlier? It seems to me (based on his storytelling choices) that Mr. Burlew believes similarly.

I'm all for appreciating the artistry of what's being presented. But in order to do that, it has to actually be presented. I fear we're reaching a point where that just isn't happening any more.

You keep bringing up the earlier comics as a paragon of what the comic should be. I contend that the artistry has grown in the telling. And frankly, if the comic had remained as shallow as it started, I wouldn't have become interested in it in the first place. I certainly would never reread it from time to time. Fortunately, it blossomed into art.

You can't just blame the audience as being impatient or unappreciative when they point it out.

I'm not blaming the audience for anything. I'm simply telling you that, as a part of the audience who disagrees with your assessments (and hardly the only one, even if I do seem to be within the minority on these boards), that there is other value to be found in the comics you are dismissing as valueless, if you care to look. If you don't care, don't worry about it. Time will answer your questions.

Was the Kickstarter enough to keep the strip running autonomously, after you factor in all the expenses it generated?

According to Mr. Burlew, the Kickstarter did only what it was designed to do: provide (almost) enough money to reprint the books he wanted printed so that they could be sold. In other words, the Kickstarter did not quite break even, but the book sales are doing their jobs. As has been the case for a decade, now, the webcomic remains an unfunded gift to its audience.

PS: There's a new comic up. I think you'll like it.

 

[Grue]

Not that it wasn't obvious but called it.;-)

 

[Remus Lupin]

Not that it wasn't obvious but called it.;-)

You did indeed, quite well.

 

[jeffh]

Why? Just? Why.

Seriously... just get on with the plot since there is no payoff to this since the fact if was all a fantasy was already spoiled in the previous strip.

It would have been better not to show that it was a fantasy until the characters started to break free.

#worstwaytomakeafillerstrip

-Sent via a cybernetic device.

Aaaaand now that the next strip is out, all the comments along these lines are looking right silly.

 

[Relique du Madde]

Not really. As far as we know he could have changed his original plans and shortened the dream sequence as a result of readers bitching.

-Sent via a cybernetic device.