Open Game License. Should Someone Start a New One?

You see... sharealike is something I used to love in the Creative Commons, but now I really don't like it for games in particular. I think it's better for a system to be something that a company can take, dump 500k of cash into developing great art and materials, and then make its money back. The core remains open but if you put in sharealike you cut off what could be a major positive force for the game's future.
 
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naturaltwenty said:
There are already games, using the existing OGL, which are just as robust if not better in some cases as d20.

True20 - by Green Ronin www.true20.com

M&M Superlink - by Green Ronin http://www.mutantsandmasterminds.com/superlink/

Runequest OGL - by Mongoose Publishing http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/home/series.php?qsSeries=39#

OSRIC - if you want to make 1st edition AD&D compatible material - by Knights & Knaves - http://www.knights-n-knaves.com/osric/

4C - A FASERIP OGL to make material compatible with the MSH game - by Ronin Arts - http://www.roninarts.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=22&sid=68f59c49625a5e598f5bb0152108d59e

There are dozens more but these are just a few companies that have seen the writing on the wall and won't be killed off as easily as when WotC released 3.5.

When WotC releases 4th edition without an OGL this will not invalidate any company from still making d20 or OGL material using the existing rules set.

Also GORE, for material compatible with percentile-based games.
http://www.goblinoidgames.com/gore.htm
 

I would like for 4.0 to be ogl. I'm making a campaign world i would like to publish, and i fear when i am done with it, 4.0 will be out and their will not be enough people that want my awesomely awesome setting... :(
 

Moon-Lancer said:
I would like for 4.0 to be ogl. I'm making a campaign world i would like to publish, and i fear when i am done with it, 4.0 will be out and their will not be enough people that want my awesomely awesome setting... :(

Given the recent announcements concerning Dragon and Dungeon, I think 4e has even less of a chance of being open than before.

joe b.
 

rycanada said:
You see... sharealike is something I used to love in the Creative Commons, but now I really don't like it for games in particular. I think it's better for a system to be something that a company can take, dump 500k of cash into developing great art and materials, and then make its money back. The core remains open but if you put in sharealike you cut off what could be a major positive force for the game's future.

I think it's probable that a company can turn profits on quality works with sharealike licenses. Put simply, the assumption of the previous few centuries -- that the only real way to make a profit when publishing a work is by having a monopoly over the right to do so -- is incorrect.

I think the usual thought pattern is this: Letting people copy our work means people buy the copies instead of our version, so we lose those sales, so letting people copy our work is bad. That line of reasoning fails to engage any second-stage thinking.

People would create knock-offs, and some people would buy them instead of the Wizards products; that much is true. However, the losses wouldn't be that big, because competing with Wizards' quality and price (due to economy of scale) would be pretty hard.

The real benefit would be in increasing the player base. Some of us think $100 is too much to pay for D&D, so we don't buy, but we might pay half that much instead. If we did that (getting a knock-off), maybe we then introduce the game to new players, maybe players who can afford Wizards' more expensive version and have a mind to have nice hardcover original-source books.

Nevermind all the additional money they'd make from miniatures and other auxiliary products.
 

Maggan said:
Search your feelings, JPL. You feel the anger, it is seething within you. Ever since that day when WotC [insert pet peeve here]! Since that day, you have been mad at them. MAD I say. Mad with rage about them daring to cause you to feel like [insert crippled comparison to real life pain and grief here]!

You are mad, even though you won't own up to it! The only way to make [insert henious slur on WotC and/or its staff here] pay is to BOYCOTT [insert range of products covered by boycott that is acceptable to you here].

That will show them!

/M

Your honeyed words give me pause, sir.

To answer Ulric's question: I don't know if WotC would ever try to put the genie back in the bottle, so to speak, or whether they could if they tried (practically speaking; or even from a legal standpoint, since it's questionable whether you can copyright game rules).

But assuming they tried, could some other non-D&D come along with an open license and have anywhere near the impact of WotC's d20/OGL licenses? Doubtful, because no other RPG is going to become the new flagship, especially if the new contender tries to do so amidst all the excitement of the launch of D&D 4.0.

An awful lot of fantasy heartbreakers have tried to supplant D&D over the years and none have even come close. I don't see that changing.
 

jgbrowning said:
Given the recent announcements concerning Dragon and Dungeon, I think 4e has even less of a chance of being open than before.

joe b.


I know. I think thats Why I might stick with 3.5, unless 4.0 is better, not just different.

Well we will see what happens. Right now I'm just going to continue and see what happens.
 

rycanada said:
You see... sharealike is something I used to love in the Creative Commons, but now I really don't like it for games in particular. I think it's better for a system to be something that a company can take, dump 500k of cash into developing great art and materials, and then make its money back. The core remains open but if you put in sharealike you cut off what could be a major positive force for the game's future.

There are major negative forces involved in the old-fashioned closed model, too. For instance, speaking of the game's future, Wizards could kill D&D tomorrow if it wanted, and none of us could do anything about it. Sure, the game would continue to be played, but only in zombie form since no one would be allowed to actively continue publishing new work.

The converse isn't true. Sharealike'd works never die. They are immortal.

Also, it occurs to me that Wizards can make life miserable for us in other ways if it wants. Companies make decisions that are opposed to the best interest of customers all the time; this is because a for-profit corporation is required to put its own interests first. We've seen this conflict with the interests of game players again and again.
 

shurai said:
I think it's probable that a company can turn profits on quality works with sharealike licenses. Put simply, the assumption of the previous few centuries -- that the only real way to make a profit when publishing a work is by having a monopoly over the right to do so -- is incorrect.

I think the usual thought pattern is this: Letting people copy our work means people buy the copies instead of our version, so we lose those sales, so letting people copy our work is bad. That line of reasoning fails to engage any second-stage thinking.

People would create knock-offs, and some people would buy them instead of the Wizards products; that much is true. However, the losses wouldn't be that big, because competing with Wizards' quality and price (due to economy of scale) would be pretty hard.

The real benefit would be in increasing the player base. Some of us think $100 is too much to pay for D&D, so we don't buy, but we might pay half that much instead. If we did that (getting a knock-off), maybe we then introduce the game to new players, maybe players who can afford Wizards' more expensive version and have a mind to have nice hardcover original-source books.

Nevermind all the additional money they'd make from miniatures and other auxiliary products.

That scenario leapfrogs over all the problems of establishing a brand - you can't make money off the auxiliaries if your game never gets established in the first place.

Also, a LOT of game products really are exclusively text and pictures. So if the only way you can do the sharealike thing is by having accessories, you're hampering any product that wouldn't require them. This even goes for things like From Dretch to Demon Lord.

Most importantly, for a company to come in and do this, that company has to already agree with your philosophy of how sharealike works. That's a small subset of the companies that could make serious contributions to such a game.
 

JPL said:
. . . it's questionable whether you can copyright game rules).

I'd say obviously not. If you are, then Wizards owes somebody (a lot of somebodies) a whole lot of money. D&D 3.0 didn't break any new ground in terms of rules innovation; it is rather a very good combination of pretty standard game ideas from lots of places.

You can copyright the text of the rules, and artwork, page layouts, and so forth, but you absolutely cannot copyright the semantics of the rules. That is, the thing you produce can be copyrighted, but the ideas the thing represents are not eligible for copyright.

I'm not sure how closely you could copy it and get away with it though.
 

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