Open Letter to WotC from Chris Dias

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Who were the management at the time who initially approved it but today don't like the results?

I was trying to convey my gut feelings about the situation, not lay out specifics. Because...

Do you know or are they, in your mind, a faceless, unchanging corporate entity?

Not at all on either count. I don't know who they were, who they are now; not on a casual basis or a personal basis. I know it's a group of ever changing people faced with real-life decisions. I was merely sharing my speculation, as that is all most of us have.

I think the dislike of the OGL showed up far earlier than 4E though. IMO, Not enough beyond core was added to the OGL to show that management at the time was buying the results.

 

[Roland55]

Well, I know people who bought the 3.X PHB because of at least two 3pp:
Spycraft (first edition - before there was ever a D20 Modern) by AEG
Skull & Bones by Green Ronin

I also someone who bought the PHB because of Nyambe, but as far as I know they never actually ran it.

So it did happen


Who is standing on Dave Arneson (who used Chainmail for the first RPG, though it was a miniatures wargame), who is standing on EGG again (for writing Chainmail).

The Auld Grump

So true. Even when you're sure you've done something quite original ... there's usually at least one person you're beholden to.

 

[Beginning of the End]

Well, I know people who bought the 3.X PHB because of at least two 3pp:
Spycraft (first edition - before there was ever a D20 Modern) by AEG
Skull & Bones by Green Ronin

I also someone who bought the PHB because of Nyambe, but as far as I know they never actually ran it.

So it did happen

I personally know at least 8 people who bought PHBs and other WotC rulebooks because they were playing in campaigns that wouldn't have existed if it wasn't for 3PPs. (The DM would have been running a different game system if 3PP product didn't lead directly to the creation of those campaigns.)

Some of those people later went on to become 3E DMs themselves, although I can't testify on whether or not they converted new players in turn.

 

[Wicht]

Not at all on either count. I don't know who they were, who they are now; not on a casual basis or a personal basis.

Peter Adkinson was CEO and therefore the person probably most responsible for giving it the go ahead. Considering he was/is a pretty savy gamer, I imagine he understood the full implications. He sold to Hasbro the following year. I believe he is currently involved with Gen Con and Bella Sara cards.

Ryan Dancey was Brand Manager of DnD. He was they guy in charge of the game and he was the one pushing the OGL. He seems to have been fairly sure of what he was doing, and looking back, does not seem to regret it.

The OGL came out in 2000. In 2001 the company changed hands. The people who created the OGL are not the same team as the ones there now.

In a way, the OGL can be considered the way in which the owners/stewards of Dungeons and Dragons in 2000 insured any future owners/stewards would be forced to deal with the game in the proper manner or else face losing the game.

 

[ThatGuyThere]

The OGL came out in 2000. In 2001 the company changed hands. The people who created the OGL are not the same team as the ones there now.

Huh. There's an interesting tidbit, that I'd either forgotten, or dismissed.

So those in charge of the money [edit - for the life of 3.0 / 3.5 and the dawn of 4th edition] were not the original OGL supporters.

When was Unearthed Arcana (Wizard's last OGL foray, correct?) released? Anyone?

 

[Mark CMG]

Huh. There's an interesting tidbit, that I'd either forgotten, or dismissed.

So those in charge of the money [edit - for the life of 3.0 / 3.5 and the dawn of 4th edition] were not the original OGL supporters.

When was Unearthed Arcana (Wizard's last OGL foray, correct?) released? Anyone?

2004. Here you go - Dungeons & Dragons Books from Wizards of the Coast :: Pen & Paper RPG Database

 

[pemerton]

While the 3E WotC adventures were certainly better than the 4E offerings.

I don't agree with this. Like the 4e adventures (at least the handful that I know) the 3E adventures have some good, even powerful, ideas, but extremely banal and overly combat-centric execution (Bastion of Broken Souls is in my view the poster child for this).

 

[Hussar]

So therefore you are going to assume the claims to be false?/snip

Apologies for the Fox news joke. I wasn't trying to make a statement but making a seriously failed attempt at a joke. My bad.

But, I have to ask, what data? What data are you basing ANY of these assumptions and claims on? I'm not assuming ANY claims to be true because none of the claims is backed up by anything even remotely in the same zip code as an actual fact.

It could be that Paizo is going great guns and is going to overtake top spot and stay there for the next ten years.

It could be that this is all Internet tempest in a tea cup and people are making mountains out of molehills.

My point is, no one actually has anything like facts to back up their gut reactions. This thread simply shows this. We have BOTE here talking about how he personally knows 8 people who were brought into 3e by 3pp.

It's interesting. It's a talking point, but, at the end of the day, it's who cares? How many people came into the hobby without any 3pp influence? How many of those gamers are still gamers? How much bias is there in BOTE's example? Those 8 gamers could have been people he personally recruited for a 3pp game like M&M, and would quite possibly have been just as likely to become gamers if they were introduced through 3.5 D&D, or Villains and Vigilantes.

BryonD, you talk about the split and make statements like this:

4E was not designed for ENWorld or RPGnet fans. They wanted us to like it, I'm not saying otherwise. But they wanted us to come along for the ride in a game that was designed for a completely new and much larger audience.

Really? Based on what? How is this not designed for ENWorld fans? Morrus has come out here and flat out stated how successful his 4e adventure path has been, to the point where they've expanded into two more 4e AP's. Wouldn't this point to 4e being designed for EnWorld fans? After all, if EnWorld hated 4e, wouldn't the AP's not be terribly succeful?

The game is not designed for YOU. Totally agree there. But you are not D&D fandom. It might suck to have a game that's not specifically catering to your tastes, but, you're conflating your tastes with some sort of broader appeal.

 

[BryonD]

But you are not D&D fandom. It might suck to have a game that's not specifically catering to your tastes, but, you're conflating your tastes with some sort of broader appeal.

I absolutely reject that and will go so far as to request that you consider retracting it.

I have stated before that if D&D 5e truly was designed to my personal specifications it would flop majestically.

I do not remotely think that my personal tastes have any bearing whatsoever on popularity. I think anyone who pays attention to what I have said over and over again would know that.

My opinions about 4E's issues with broader appeal are based on just that, my assessment of broader appeal, even when that appeal conflicts directly with what I would prefer.

As to whether or not there is a split. Whatever. I'm not motivated to debate that topic. The comment you quoted isn't even based on the split, it is based on the direct comments of multiple designers and marketers of 4E. I cite it as informative as to WHY the split exists.

You specifically Hussar told me that the editions wars would be over by the end of Summer 2008 because everyone would wrap up their on-going campaigns and move on to 4E. You were way wrong. You are more wrong now when you try to insist that not only is reasonable doubt out of the question but that somehow the existence of a split is de facto false until proven by the very word of God. When I read insider after insider talk about it and their point of conversations have long sense moved past even questioning it and into simply taking it as understood and debating just where they lines may be drawn. So, to have Hussar come along and demand I document the fact is just not going to lose me any sleep. It is there. You don't believe it. Life is good. Gaming is good.

 

[BryonD]

After all, if EnWorld hated 4e, wouldn't the AP's not be terribly succeful?

And just for the record, I'll point out that this is example N+1 of Hussar radically twisting my words into something that in no way reflects what I said.