Opinion: PoL and high tiers do not fit in the long run

[Stone Dog]

Bah I am exiting this debate. Xechnao your arguments do not have rational merit to my understanding, I am sorry. I cannot follow this debate if I cannot understand what I am arguing against.

That is because you are arguing against somebody who doesn't wan to understand what you mean. Xechnao wants to be right, not talk about options.

The main thing is that Xechnao is tossing around words like "magic" and "level 30" as if they are magic bullets that will solve all problems when he has no idea what they actually mean. Nobody knows what they mean, but most people are speculating a little more rationally than thinking a handful of level thirty characters can drive an entire planet into some modern utopia.

A PoL setting can be sustained for any reasonable number of campaigns. I've never even heard of a group playing successive generations before so it is baffling to think it is a problem. Even if you don't want to sustain it... there is no reason not to make it an organic start to your game and let your characters change it when they are powerful enough.

It is a molehill. hardly a mountain and not worth worrying about. If it wasn't raining I'd laugh at the thought and pass on to something else to read, but it is very dull today.

 

[pemerton]

I did not claim nor the opposite nor this. I just said that d&d power level PoL is not viable as a long term extentable setting of conflict. Consider that in the past people did not experience the power of modern day tachnology.

But nor do people in a PoL setting - they have magic. And W&M strongly (and, I think, rightly, if the game is to be playable) emphasises that D&D magic is not a replacement for tecnhnology.

Explain this away how you want (the will of the Gods, an inherently conservative culture, whatever) but do it somehow - otherwise your problem will emerge.

Yes, but those were earthshaking events. New races came to appearence and others disappeared. So must we take a new races handbook with each campaign shattering event.

Well, whatever brings PCs to 30th level and realises their Epic Destinies will presumably be world-shaking also. As for new races, I'm sure WoTC will supply as many as you need!

I have to ask - are you trying to find out how PoL can be made to work across campaigns, by looking for ideas? Or are you determined to show that, whatever idea is put up, there is some possible argument that can be put against it? If the latter, no doubt you will win - social theory of the real world is hardly an exact science, let alone that of the D&D gameworld, so any proposal will have flaws and debatable points.

 

[xechnao]

That's for you as the Gamemaster to decide. Nobody really cares for that, when they start a new campaign.

From OP:

"So I guess in 4e each campaign will have to reset to a point somehow. I think we will have to miss PCs' legacy building from one campaign to the next as points that remained."

My problem is that 4e campaigns will have the repeatability of the Diablo2 campaigns.

For most of you this may not be a concern. But for people that play hardcore d&d campaigns and want a sense of campaign continuity perhaps it is -I personaly feel fantasy with this sense.

 

[Daniel D. Fox]

I still cannot believe people are tossing a piss about PoL. Seriously, either you embrace PoL or not. It doesn't have ANY impact on the game mechanics. PoL is intended for the default setting, and the future of Forgotten Realms. You don't have to use PoL in your campaign whatsoever.

 

[Wormwood]

Remember that D&D isn't a world simulator, it's just the backdrop for stories about your PCs.

.sigged

 

[Incenjucar]

Xech's concern appears to be more along the lines of being worried that FR's official flavor, being geared towards PoL in 4E, will disrupt his "hard core" campaigns there.

Even though Elminster has existed.

 

[Crothian]

From OP:

"So I guess in 4e each campaign will have to reset to a point somehow. I think we will have to miss PCs' legacy building from one campaign to the next as points that remained."

My problem is that 4e campaigns will have the repeatability of the Diablo2 campaigns.

For most of you this may not be a concern. But for people that play hardcore d&d campaigns and want a sense of campaign continuity perhaps it is -I personaly feel fantasy with this sense.

This depends on what the PCs have done in the other campaigns. In my campaigns the PC's legacies will be seen in 4e as the safe havens in the PoL setting. I can't think of anything that has happened in the previous 8 campaigns that can't build to something cool taking my setting into the PoL philosophy.

 

[xechnao]

That is because you are arguing against somebody who doesn't wan to understand what you mean. Xechnao wants to be right, not talk about options.

The main thing is that Xechnao is tossing around words like "magic" and "level 30" as if they are magic bullets that will solve all problems when he has no idea what they actually mean. Nobody knows what they mean, but most people are speculating a little more rationally than thinking a handful of level thirty characters can drive an entire planet into some modern utopia.

A PoL setting can be sustained for any reasonable number of campaigns. I've never even heard of a group playing successive generations before so it is baffling to think it is a problem. Even if you don't want to sustain it... there is no reason not to make it an organic start to your game and let your characters change it when they are powerful enough.

It is a molehill. hardly a mountain and not worth worrying about. If it wasn't raining I'd laugh at the thought and pass on to something else to read, but it is very dull today.

For you people that know that my issue is not for you of concern it would rather be better if you kept off posting instead of threadcrapping just because it is raining outside where you live.

 

[Agamon]

My problem is that 4e campaigns will have the repeatability of the Diablo2 campaigns.

For most of you this may not be a concern. But for people that play hardcore d&d campaigns and want a sense of campaign continuity perhaps it is -I personaly feel fantasy with this sense.

I don't see that at all, personally. Your POV seems odd to me and it seems everyone's rebuttals don't make sense to you. Perhaps playing lower level games or a non-POL setting would fix your problem, rather than try to explain that it's broken as a fact.

 

[Daniel D. Fox]

My problem is that 4e campaigns will have the repeatability of the Diablo2 campaigns.

For most of you this may not be a concern. But for people that play hardcore d&d campaigns and want a sense of campaign continuity perhaps it is -I personaly feel fantasy with this sense.

Any DM worth his calibre can make rules work, and work for his group. Perhaps the issue isn't the rules, so much as it is the DM in this case.