Opinion: PoL and high tiers do not fit in the long run

[Incenjucar]

while it lasts

THIS IS THE IMPORTANT PART

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Yes, my point again is that this does not make sense. Life can't be PoL more than some number of genrations. Because it is a high power game humans have to either expand or perish.

Why not? Ever play a game of capture the flag? Sure your heroes went and cleared out the Dastardly Keep, widening the PoL.. but then they went elsewhere to fight evil, and evil slid in behind them.

The Epic folks can not be everywhere at once, so the PoL setting resembles the Yin and Yang symbology with Evil eating Goods tail as Good clears Evil out.

This leaves enough room for heroes of all levels in the same world, and provides a reason why the Epic folks don't come around saving the world all the time. Sometimes Evil gets an edge, other days Good seems to be on the verge of cleansing the world.. yet always the balance returns. Perhaps in years, perhaps in days.
Perhaps due to the PC's actions. Perhaps not.

Sounds to me like the perfect conceit behind any setting, even FRs.

 

[DandD]

So what if heroes and adventurers have no job anymore if the player character heroes saved the world? It's over. Time for a new campaign, as you said.

 

[xechnao]

If you want to play in a lengthy, established world where your players play the grandchildren of their last PC's, then don't use the PoL assumptions and use your own. Too easy. The PoL assumptions aren't terribly hardwired into the mechanics apparently (I'm not sure how they could be) so, creating your homebrew to resemble, say, Forgotten Realms, with scads of shared history within your group, is not a problem.

And it's most certainly not prevented by the DMG guidelines.

Indeed. But if 4e Forgotten Realms is PoL I will have to remain 3e.

 

[xechnao]

Why not?

It is a question of probabilities. The higher the power level the easier for the balance to eventually pick a side.

 

[Incenjucar]

Exactly how long do you suppose it takes for a campaign to lead characters to enough power to tip the scales, permanently, in one direction, such that the World, the Elemental Chaos, the Astral, the Feywild, the Shadowfell, and the FAR REALM all fall under their banner?

And I am assuming there are no other worlds.

 

[xechnao]

Exactly how long do you suppose it takes for a campaign to lead characters to enough power to tip the scales, permanently, in one direction, such that the World, the Elemental Chaos, the Astral, the Feywild, the Shadowfell, and the FAR REALM all fall under their banner?

And I am assuming there are no other worlds.

In d&d this is the wrong question. The right question is how long does it take for your heroes to reach level 30. And the answer depends from the rate they can face encounnters. PoL means that they can face them whenever they want. So I guess not so much time.

 

[Incenjucar]

5 Level 30 characters are going to permanently tip the balance of power?

Simply by reaching level 30?

Is an Epic Destiny option going to be "You WIN Forever?"

 

[Hussar]

A conflict of two forces such as forces of civilization versus darkness or good versus evil or law versus chaos or whatever is not viable in the long term when we are talking about high power levels.



Yes, my point again is that this does not make sense. Life can't be PoL more than some number of genrations. Because it is a high power game humans have to either expand or perish. They live in a world of probabilities so to survive against threats they have to eventually secure their safety -especially for the reason of the high power level. There can be no constant threat. But if they expand it will be PoL no more.

Well, our own world remained PoL (at least Europe anyway) for about 1000 years (500 AD to 1500 AD) and numerous other parts of the world for MUCH much longer than that. Heck, North America and Central America were PoL almost to the present day. Certainly within our own grandparents lifetimes.

1000 years is more than enough time methinks for most campaign worlds to tell most of their stories.

The idea that high level PC's will become permanent fixtures in the world is actually not supported. For one, elves had their lifespans chopped significantly. 3e lacks life extension magic a point that was used to great effect in Scarred Lands.

Actually SL sounds a LOT like a PoL setting. Small city states surrounded by extremely dangerous countryside. Life within those citystates is fairly good, but outside of those "points of light", life is very nasty, brutish and short.

Heck, thinking about it longer, there's large amounts of world history that looks an AWFUL lot like this.

 

[xechnao]

5 Level 30 characters are going to permanently tip the balance of power?

The whole Light in Pol has only 5 adventurers to rise every generation ?? And how much does the darkness ? 4, 5 or 6?? :\
Every generation will have its chance. If it fails the next generation will have its chance too. Eventually the balance will be tipped. If not a certain force or reason will have to exist for not to.