D&D 5E Opinions on Bladesinger

[abirdcall]

The people working at Green Ronin are pros. More to the point, the people working at Wizards who developed/edited/approved the stuff in the book are pros who created the system.

I won't go so far as to say it's impossible for a mistake like that to creep through, but it's exceedingly unlikely.

There are peculiarities in abilities in SCAG.

Death Monk fear affects allies and can be used continuously against creatures after they successfully save against it which is different than other fear effects (see frightful presence)

Half-Elves have a varient where they can choose to give up 2 skills of their choice to gain proficiency in Perception. Which makes no sense.

Overall the idea behind the crunch is well thought out but it needs a bit more ironing.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

When a diviner makes the enemy fail the important save without the enemy even getting the roll (even on an enemy with legendary resistance)

Portent cannot prevent legendary resistance from working.

 

[psychophipps]

I don't really understand this post. You regard the ability to use AoE spells without their main drawback - friendly fire - as bad and stupid because you are an 'Old Skooler'? Uh, why? It seems to me that the main disconnect here is your strange perspective on the Wizard class.

The threat of friendly fire is what makes your players think of alternate solutions to the tactical problem. To slightly tweak a fairly common saying to make a bit more sense, "If all you are required to use is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail."
This "You can just nuke like crazy without hurting anyone but the mobs" is a hold over from MMORPGs that I completely disagree with. By allowing this you can quickly run into a situation where Fireball (or insert random other AOE damage spell) resolves every combat situation unless you run into resistance or immunity.

 

[psychophipps]

Portent cannot prevent legendary resistance from working.

Thanks for clarifying this. When I first read it I was all, "What the hey!?! DUMBEST RULING EVER!"

 

[Mirtek]

Portent cannot prevent legendary resistance from working.

You're right, I was confusing it with spell resistance

That's the cost of picking any subclass.
Surrounded by enemies? I'd drop a fireball on us but can't exclude us because I'm a diviner.
The enemy needs to fail this save! Diviner, you're up! Yeah sorry, that was the other guy, I'm the invoker. Did someone ask to have a fireball dropped on the group?

Not according to psychophipps

Selecting bladesinger is patching a wizard weakness without any cost, since all the features of other subclasses do not matter because old school wizards did not have them anyway

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Thanks for clarifying this. When I first read it I was all, "What the hey!?! DUMBEST RULING EVER!"

Yeah, it's because Portent dictates die rolls but legendary resistance follows and overrides die rolls. Ditto Indomitable fighters and Diamond Soul monks.

 

[Z. H. Darkstar]

One thing to look out for however, I think is the Aracana Cleric using the cantrips. That seems more deadly than the bladesinger to me.

Actually, the deadliest users of GFB/BB are Variant Human Swashbucklers with Magic Initiate and Vengeance Paladin 3/Tomelock 3/Draconic Sorcerer 6. The former tacks the extra 3d8 to Sneak Attack, while the latter can get +Cha*3 to damage rolls via Shillelagh, Channel Divinity, and Elemental Affinity. You can take the Swashbuckler up another notch by taking Battlemaster Fighter 3, which replaces 1d6 of Sneak Attack (plus Rogue 18-20 abilities) with d8 Superiority Dice, (Dueling) Fighting Style, Action Surge, and a shield. Martial Adept provides the cherry on top, giving you an extra Superiority Die and two more maneuvers (which most work with GFB/BB) to add to your repertoire.

But I digress...

As for my views on the Bladesinger, it's a solid B+ subclass. I think that Extra Attack isn't needed, and that an ASI should have been given instead. It truly is a shame that the melee Wizard subclass gets the least overall utility out of the melee cantrips. Oh well, I never really like playing a Wizard anyways.

 

[Mirtek]

*Nevermind*

 

[CapnZapp]

I am just surprised since this is the only class ability changing the standard AC formula by adding an extra ability modifier that does not use the stacking-proof phrase. Seems like a curiosity to me.

You have this completely and utterly backwards.

You call this a class ability that changes the standard AC formula. It isn't one.
It doesn't use "the stacking-proof phrase" because it isn't one of those abilities.

In fact, you're wrong even about "the stacking-proof phrase". You need to see that phrase as setting an AC first and foremost, and being "stacking-proof" only second. This ties into a fundamental rule of this edition, on page 14 of the PHB:

Some spells and elass features give you a different
way to calculate your AC. If you have multiple features
that give you different ways to calculate your AC,you
choose which one to use.

It is this rule I am referring to when I say "there's two ways of phrasing it" and "abilities that set your AC. The rules say you must choose one and only one of these."

Things like armor (the rule for no armor on page 14 as well as the rules for light, medium and heavy armor respectively in the Equipment chapter) and things like the Barbarian, Monk and Dragon Sorcerer abilities among others are of this kind.

They all set your AC, and you need to choose which one you want to use.

But not all abilities are like that.

The other kind of ability as regards AC is the one giving a bonus to AC. That includes everything from the Shield spell via a Ring of Protection to, yes, the Bladesinger ability.

The first kind of ability is phrased one, distinct, way. The second kind of ability is phrased another, distinctly different, way.

And since the Bladesinger ability is phrased exactly right for the second kind of ability, it is the second kind of ability.

No mistakes. Nothing uncertain. Everything says it is fully intentional.



Look Mirtek. I understand you came to SCAG with the strong belief the Bladesinger ability would be like the Barbarian's or the Dragon Sorcerer's.

You say it's strange the way it didn't use "the stacking-proof phrase". That's another way of saying you're surprised it didn't use the correct phrase.

But it did.

What was wrong was your assumptions.

It did use the correct phrase, not just the one you were expecting.

In fact, until you question your assumptions, nothing I say will ever make you change your mind. And until you do, you will never understand why the Bladesinger phrasing isn't strange and isn't a mistake.

 

[psychophipps]

Not according to psychophipps.

Selecting bladesinger is patching a wizard weakness without any cost, since all the features of other subclasses do not matter because old school wizards did not have them anyway

Ehh...close 'nuff for government work, I guess.