Opinions on the Ninja?

[ValhallaGH]

Re: the Complete Adventurer Ninja, not the mythical "a katana turns into a 2d12 2-20 x3d4 gets 3 sneak attack dice every level and double good saves" ninja.

Every time I've looked at it, it seems...weak. Like a rogue, but less capable.

It's a poor choice for a typical adventuring party but it makes an excellent core-class assassin. As a rough and tumble wandering adventurer, it's poorly designed. Not enough skill points to fill the Rogue niche, Sudden Strike is only useful in the first round of combat, and its cool ki abilities aren't useful in the typical millieu.
On the other hand, being able to walk through walls and stab someone into next week is very powerful, especially when you can wait until they are asleep and have removed their Heavy Fortification armor. Coup de grace with +10d6 is a save that only a 20 will pass.

Overall, a very interesting class and wonderful for NPC assassins but a bad choice for a player.

 

[Bauglir]

I've often felt that the 3/4 BAB fighting classes were too weak. If a class is designed around fighting (as with the ninja) then IMO full BAB progression is a must or you end up with a sub-par class which often fails to live up to its purpose.

The ninja gets quite a few skills and abilities, but the ninja is not a rogue. They are focussed on combat rather than skill use. (by theme at least). A big part of the ninja/assassin schtick is accuracy and skill with a blade, isn't it? Missing frequently just doesn't seem to mesh properly with that character concept.

 

[Greg K]

My opinion of the ninja...blech!

 

[Stalker0]

I've often felt that the 3/4 BAB fighting classes were too weak. If a class is designed around fighting (as with the ninja) then IMO full BAB progression is a must or you end up with a sub-par class which often fails to live up to its purpose.

The ninja gets quite a few skills and abilities, but the ninja is not a rogue. They are focussed on combat rather than skill use. (by theme at least). A big part of the ninja/assassin schtick is accuracy and skill with a blade, isn't it? Missing frequently just doesn't seem to mesh properly with that character concept.

Keep in mind that with the ability to go invisible, that's often an extra +2 to attacks right there, more if the guy has a dex bonus. 3/4 BAB classes can do just fine in a fight, as long as there special abilities compensate well enough. Just look at the cleric, a few buff spells and he kicks the crap out of any fighter.

 

[shilsen]

Sudden Strike is only useful in the first round of combat

Or, as I pointed out above, any time you use the Sudden Strike (invisibility) ability against most opponents.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Or, as I pointed out above, any time you use the Sudden Strike (invisibility) ability against most opponents.

I think you mean Ghost Step (invisibilty) ability.

 

[Talic]

My problem with the Ghost Step ability I think also has to do with playing the ninja at lower level. Yeah, its a cool ability and almost gauranteed Sudden Strike, but its how often you get to use it that makes it pretty limited. Maybe its a fault of our sessions that we tend to have several encounters a day, but those small number of uses is what puts a damper on the effectiveness. Especially if you need to save one of the uses for the sake of maintaining the +2 bonus to Will saves.

This is a problem that likely is much less pronounced at higher levels. And as shilsen pointed out, the ability to make multiple attacks under invisibility will also increas effectiveness at higher levels. At lower levels the flurry/2-weapon penalties I feel are just to steep to be cosnistantly effective with any of the attacks, and further complicates things with multi-class issues and an even more stunted BAB.

I might try the class again sometime if we start at higher levels. I really want to enjoy playing it.

 

[Bauglir]

Keep in mind that with the ability to go invisible, that's often an extra +2 to attacks right there, more if the guy has a dex bonus. 3/4 BAB classes can do just fine in a fight, as long as there special abilities compensate well enough. Just look at the cleric, a few buff spells and he kicks the crap out of any fighter.

While that is true, a fighter (for example) gains access to that much extra attack bonus from just two of their numerous bonus feats.

A cleric can sort of keep up in a fight, particuarly if they use their self-buffs well. I would expect the fighter to pull ahead in most scenarios though, but that's ok since the Cleric's primary focus isn't really on fighting.

 

[shilsen]

I think you mean Ghost Step (invisibilty) ability.

Yup. Thanks for the correction.

 

[Nightfall]

What? No love for Jutsu?