Level Up (A5E) Optimized wildshape options for Skinchanger druid?

[MajorSarigar]

I disagree. The wildshape rules repeatedly refer to A creature or THE creature. If we want to go RAW, swarms lack the features that simply refer to a creature instead of referring to a wildshape. Consequently, if you wildshape into a swarm, you don’t gain the swarm’s game statistics, because the rule only applies to “the creature,” singular.

The fact that the rules never refer to creatures in the plural when discussing wildshape not only reveals that not turning into swarms is RAI, but the alternative interpretation results in contradictions that make the notion RAW.

Mechanically, a swarm is a creature with a singular stat block like any other creature. The creature's type may be Beast, Plant, or whatever. A swarm has senses, a movement speed, resistances, immunities, vulnerabilities, traits, actions, and attacks. "Swarm" is just a trait the creature has. I'm not sure what "features" you think a swarm lacks that other creatures have; plural agreement is not a creature trait.

Interpret it however you like, but RAW a swarm is a creature, and a swarm of the Beast type is an eligible wildshape form.

 

[xiphumor]

Swarms do have a trait others don’t have, even aside from the tag (which I maintain is reason enough) and that trait directly contradicts wildshape: The Swarm Trait.

Any swarm creature will have something like this trait:

“The swarm can occupy another creature’s space and move through any opening large enough for a Tiny creature. It can’t gain HP or temporary hit points.”

Consider that in light of the Wild Shape rules:

“Whenever you use your Wild Shape feature to transform into a creature, you gain a number of temporary hit points equal to 1d4 × the creature’s CR (minimum 1d4).”

Allowing swarms creates a contradiction, and it isn’t clear which rule would be intended to overrule the other. It isn’t clear because it doesn’t have to be clear; it isn’t legal.

 

[Pedantic]

Swarms do have a trait others don’t have, even aside from the tag (which I maintain is reason enough) and that trait directly contradicts wildshape: The Swarm Trait.

Any swarm creature will have something like this trait:

“The swarm can occupy another creature’s space and move through any opening large enough for a Tiny creature. It can’t gain HP or temporary hit points.”

Consider that in light of the Wild Shape rules:

“Whenever you use your Wild Shape feature to transform into a creature, you gain a number of temporary hit points equal to 1d4 × the creature’s CR (minimum 1d4).”

Allowing swarms creates a contradiction, and it isn’t clear which rule would be intended to overrule the other. It isn’t clear because it doesn’t have to be clear; it isn’t legal.

I'm sympathetic to the instinct that druids must remain singular entities when wildshaping, but I'm not seeing the mechanical contradiction you're claiming is here. This is no more an issue than a bard trying to use Harmony of Pain on a raging berserker. You can use the battle hymn, the berserker just doesn't get the temporary HP. Or, if you want an example that uses exactly the same language, would you contend that a Rallying Speech from the feat provides no benefit to any listener if one of the 6 targets has heard another such speech since their last rest?

I think your contention is that a swarm is definitionally "multiple creatures" and that wildshape specifies "transform into a creature," but the swarm trait itself doesn't actually doesn't in any way specify the swarm is multiple creatures. The ability to "occupy another creature's space" and "move through any opening large enough for a Tiny creature," are absolutely abilities a creature can have.

You could make a common sense reading argument that swarms are multiple creatures, or an argument that "a creature" is defined by a statblock. I don't think it's really that big a deal either way. The Swarm of Poisonous snakes is stand-out good for a few levels, but so is the Giant Ape, and losing half your damage when you lose half your hitpoints is a significant drawback.

 

[MajorSarigar]

I asked the A5E druid class designer for clarification, and their answer was:

"So the short answer is no, you can't wild shape into a swarm. For the long answer let's look at "swarm of rats" as an example. Swarm of rats isn't listed as a "beast", but rather as "medium swarm of tiny beasts". Wild shape allows you to transform into "beasts" and "plants", not "swarms". You could totally become a rat, since it's a beast, but not a "swarm", even if the swarm is composed of beasts. Think of swarms as essentially using mob rules as "swarm" and "group" are unique types for targeting and feature purposes. You can't for example cast dominate person and control an entire commoner mob, because the commoner mob is a "group" where dominate person can only target a humanoid.

"Now with all that being said, swarm druids are something I've made in the past and should things go my way there might be an archetype to that effect at some point in the future."

That being the case, I withdraw my recommendation for a swarm form, even though it is cool. I would still allow it at my table, but I accept that it is not intended to be a wild shape option.

 

[Fareed]

This might not be quite what you're asking for but Kobold Press' Tome of Beasts (1 and 2) and Creature Compendium books for O5e have some really cool plants and beasts that an A5e druid could turn into. my personal favorite is the gloomflower just for the insane utility. View attachment 260820