Optimizing a char that combines artillery power and melee capabilities

[pyrate]

Hi there,
I am building a character for a new campaign that we're going to start soon. I'd like to play something that combines the firepower of a sorcerer and the raw melee powers of a fighter, and I thought about a combination of warmage/eldritch knight. Here it is in detail:

Starting values: Str 14, Dex 13, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 17

I thought to start as a female human warmage and taking levels as follows: 1fgt/7warmage/10eldritch knight/1warmage

Progression overview:
1 WM1 - [Armored Mage (light), Warmage's edge] (Feats: 1 base, 1 human) Battle Caster, Practiced Spellcaster(Warmage)
Skills: 4 Knowledge Arcana, 4 Spellcraft, 4 Concentration
2 Fgt1 - (Feats: 1 Fgt) Improved Toughness
Skills: 3 Swim
3 WM2 - (Feats: 1 std) Weapon Focus(Ranged Spell)
Skills: 1 Knowledge Arcana, 1 Spellcraft, 1 Concentration (and every level thereafter)
4 WM3 - [Advanced Learning(Persistent Blade)], Ability increase: Con 17
5 WM4 -
6 WM5 - (Feats: 1 std) Fiery Burst
7 WM6 - [Advanced Learning(Daylight)]
8 WM7 - [Sudden Empower], Ability increase: Con 18
9 WM8 - [Armored Mage (medium)], (Feats: 1 std) Retributive Spell
10 EK1 - (Feats: 1 eldritch knight) Point Blank Shot
11 EK2 -
12 EK3 - (Feats: 1 std) Improved Critical(Ranged Spell), Ability increase: Cha 18
13 EK4 -
14 EK5 -
15 EK6 - (Feats: 1 std) Ranged Recall
16 EK7 - Ability increase: Cha 19
17 EK8 -
18 EK9 - (Feats: 1 std) Arcane Strike or Sudden Maximize Spell
19 EK10 -
20 WM9 - Ability increase: Cha 20

In level 20:
Human fgt1/eldritch knight10/warmage9; Base Atk: +15; hps: 6 + 1d10 + 18d6 + 20*5 = 6 + 5.5 + 63 + 100 = 174.5; Base SV: Fort 12, Ref 6, Will 9;

Lv2: She can switch her chain shirt to breastplate and gain +1 AC, she will also switch from morningstar to greataxe and get a weapon that is much better, she also has decent hps at that level.
Lv6: She is only able to cast 2nd level spells, but as long as she keeps one slot she can do all day long 2d6 fire damage, using her fiery burst feat (a feat that'll do more damage later on).
Lv9: She switches her breastplate to fullplate and gains another +3 to AC, she also has retributive spell (poison).
Lv10: She starts improving her base attack, in order to use the orb spells with more accuracy.

Cons:
She'll only be able to cast spells of 9th level, when she reaches character level 20, that's 2 levels worse than sorcerer.

Comments and ideas of how to improve her are very welcome...

 

[rgard]

You might want to check out the Battlesorcerer from UA. You get the 3/4 BAB, D8 and can cast 9th level spells at 18th level. You use the Sorcerer spell progression though you cast one less spell per level to a minimum of 1 and know one less per level to a minimum of 0.

Also, any PrC that gives you a better than 3/4 BAB and full casting is good for the Battlesorcerer (goes for most Arcane casters of course) like the Abjurant Champion and a one level dip in Dragonslayer.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Runestar]

If you have ToB, consider the jade phoenix mage. A crusader/sorc/JPM is not too shabby. Throw in lvs of abjurant champion and spellsword to mix.

Alternatively, you can try a warblade/duskblade/JPM build. Lesser spellcasting, but you do retain full bab.

What books do you have to work with?

 

[Jack Simth]

The UA Spontaneous Variant Cleric, taking some offensively-minded domains (like War, Sun, or Fire) will do the job reasonably well, depending on what level you start with. d8 HD, 3/4th's BAB, and heavy armor proficiency. The possibility of a martial weapon proficiency, too, if you go with War.

Edit: You lose out marginally on the firepower, but remain a full-progression caster, and have no issues whatsoever with heavy armor, and avoid losing any caster levels.

 

[pyrate]

...What books do you have to work with?

That's not 100% sure at the moment, but it looks as though all the 'Complete'-ones and maybe phb2 and maybe even UA.

The battle sorcerer looks nice, I thought about that class as well. You could also take Battlecaster and Medium Armor proficiency for a better AC and hope for a mithral fullplate, but when it comes to feats he is a bit short, 2 less than the warmage build above, and the feat for medium armor proficiency will hurt as well. The d8 instead of d6 is not really a reason, because with 2 more feats for my build, she'll take improved toughness and the hps are aprox. the same.

A spontanous cleric with offensive spells, i.e. a favored soul (even medium armor proficiency, wf, and ws), sounded cool too at the beginning, but none of the orb spells (no save no SR, just a ranged touch attack and with the BAB mostly gained by eldritch knight it should be quite easy to hit anything besides incorporeal creatures and maybe some classes with high deflection acs like monks or rogues - gosh, I really like to see her orbing her first beholder, rakshasa, or mind-flayer... guess she'll screw up her save against the psionic blast and get brainsucked... that's how it always is).

There's another restriction I forgot to mention: probably we are only allowed one PrC (two with a VERY good reason, see the other PCs below), so Spellblade or Abjurant Champion are probably not a choice.

I should probably tell you something about the other PCs, in order to describe a bit of the tactics I thought of. There's a barbarian, a fighter/wizard/eldritch knight/abjurant champion, a favored soul/sorcerer/mystic theurge, and a druid. The fs/sor/mt will reach 3rd spell level when reaching cl 10 (that's quite a long way) and the fgt/wiz/ek/ac goes mostly for defensive and utility spells, so it's mostly up to my char to do the nuking

For the lower levels (1-6) a good tactic will be having the barbarian and the warmage in front hacking at everything that moves, giving the fgt/wiz the chance to buff himself and join melee 1 or 2 rounds later, with shield and true strike cast and max power attack, or he simply just sticks to his summon monster spells. The druid is of no big combat use at these levels, because it's a halfling with very minor stats - he'll has to wait for his shapeshifting to be available . I guess he'll cast buffs and healings and maybe some battlefield control spells or summon natures ally spells. The elven fs/sor will mostly use his bow, when he runs out of spells (starting dex is 21!, what a roll! and he'll take many of the bow-related feats, though I think there were better choices.).

At higher levels it won't be that important that the warmage can join melee battle, for the barbarian and the druid will do most of the front line fighting, together with the fgt/wiz/ek/aj she will be in the second row, with the flexibility to join melee either with her greataxe or spells like cone of cold and the like, or she can stay behind and take out particulary strong foes with disintegrates, orbs, etc. or blast the enemy to pieces with area spells.

So you see, good hps, ac, and some acceptable attack values are quite important to her, when she'd like to survive the lower levels. Damn, I can't wait to see her in action the first time

 

[Runestar]

Is blasting really the route you want to go, or are you choosing direct damage because you believe that it will best complement the party?

Because if it is the latter, then I must point out that direct damage is a fairly inefficient way of playing a spellcaster. You will probably get more mileage out of playing a battlefield-control oriented spellcaster, such as a focused specialist conjurer. You and the druid hang back and debuff the enemies with spells like entangle, glitterdust, grease and fog spells, while the barb, gish, animal companion and any summoned allies take care of the damage dealing.

If it is the former, then I think you are better off with pure warmage. They already get spells so late, I do not feel it is worth it to further delay your spellcasting progression. The warmage is actually more of an archer than a brute. Have the druid acquire a riding dog trained for war if it is another tank you want/need.

 

[pyrate]

I am well aware, that this build isn't as powerful as a sorcerer or wizard when it comes to blasting, leaving alone the whole battlefield control stuff or utility spells. I think the best build for this party would be a cleric, maybe getting church inquisitor later. He could heal better than the fs/sor/mt or the druid, he's good at melee, has some firepower and battlefield control as well.

The reason why I'm going for this build is that I usually play either a cleric, a wizard, or a sorcerer, and now I want to try something different. So the point is not picking a character that contributes most to the party or having the fun of nuking enemies all day, the point is having the flexibility of fitting the position of either a melee fighter or a caster, always depending on the situation and the opponents, the possibilities a plane-vanilla cleric has inbuild. After all the topic of this thread is: "Optimizing a char that combines artillery power and melee capabilities" not "Picking the char that contributes best to this party"

The delay in spell progression is very expensive, that's right, and I too think it's hardly worth it, I must agree with you as well. Taking Practiced Spellcaster nullifies the difference in caster level, that's a lot of help, and the expense of 0.5 spell levels behind the pure warmage, later even 1 is only worth:

this build / pure warmage (lv 20)
base saves: Fort 12 Ref 6 Will 9 - Fort 6 Ref 6 Will 12
base attack: 10/5 - 15/10/5
armor bonus: 5 - 8
hitpoints (avg): 70 - 72
damage: 1d8/x2 - 1d12/x3

Not much, I must agree, so it is a bit like an arcane cleric with will -3 and -18hps, not to mention domains or turning. But as an arcane caster her damage spells are usually better than those of a cleric.

 

[rgard]

<SNIP>

The battle sorcerer looks nice, I thought about that class as well. You could also take Battlecaster and Medium Armor proficiency for a better AC and hope for a mithral fullplate, but when it comes to feats he is a bit short, 2 less than the warmage build above, and the feat for medium armor proficiency will hurt as well. The d8 instead of d6 is not really a reason, because with 2 more feats for my build, she'll take improved toughness and the hps are aprox. the same.

Ok, fair enough. You could do two levels of fighter and still get your 9th level spell by character level 20 (Battlesorcerer 18) and get your two feats.

Another option, instead of 2 levels of Fighter is to take 2 levels Martial Rogue from UA. You'll get your two feats, lose 1 BAB, d6x2 instead of d10x2, but get evasion. Evasion works with your light armored casting. This works with your preferred build as well as the Battlesorcerer build.

If you are allowed one PrC, you could take Dragonslayer to get back the 1 BAB you lost with Martial Rogue.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Hmmm...

I would have gone a different route, but I wasn't really thinking about being a primary spellcaster.

I'd have started with a high-dex PC (range combat specialist w/high AC and an edge in initiative rolls), alchemical items like firebombs, smokebombs & tanglefoot bags, and a Quiver of Ehlonna (dirt cheap good magic!) loaded with Wands (of MM, for instance), and a collection of magical Javelins and Spears...esp. Greatspears.

A 2Hand sword with Whirling Blade and Sculpt spell is also nice...

Not that some of that couldn't be grafted upon your idea.