D&D 5E Orc or Half-Orc?

[Joe Liker]

The point about Half-Orcs/Orcs is that, in a practical sense, they are the same thing. In a culture that explicitly rapes and pillages all the time, the chances are that most of them come from some bastardised background to one degree or another. Why create an artificial division for flatly no reason whatsoever? If people baulk at the idea of playing Orcs as a straight Race, then why single these out and not Teiflings, Drow and Dragonborn? (All of which are listed as optional, or ‘uncommon’ anyway).

Because full-blooded orcs hear the voice of Gruumsh all the time, making it literally impossible for them to react to emotional stress in any way other than violence. Half-Orcs can control their rage and act civilized if they want to.

If you actually read the descriptions of the two races, the differences are very clear and stark. You can keep saying they are functionally the same, but it's just not true. In particular, the idea that "all orcs probably have mixed heritage" is explicitly countered by this passage in the MM:

When an orc procreates with a non-orc humanoid of similar size and stature ... the resulting child is either an orc or a half-orc.

That means, aside from the very clear physical distinctions, there is some genetic boundary that makes you one or the other, never somewhere in between -- otherwise, all crossbreeds would be considered half-orcs. (I hesitate to use the word "genetic" because the dividing line is more likely somewhat magical in nature, but you get the drift.)

 

[TrippyHippy]

Orcs/Half Orcs are entirely fictional fantasy. Quoting some passage from a Monster Manual as if it was fact and proves anything is really not that edifying….moreover, D&D Orcs are merely lifted from Tolkien, wherein stye notion of half-orcs was broadly speaking to do with breeding programs of Saruman.

 

[prosfilaes]

The point about Half-Orcs/Orcs is that, in a practical sense, they are the same thing.

To you. In many game worlds, they're not at all the same thing. In many game worlds, a half-orc might be tolerated where an orc wouldn't.

In a culture that explicitly rapes and pillages all the time, the chances are that most of them come from some bastardised background to one degree or another.

In many cultures that rape a subculture all the time, the children end up in the subculture of the mother, not the father. If we have male orcs raping humans, the children are much more likely to be considered "human" by the orcs instead of "orc". Slaves remain slaves, humans raped in foreign lands have their children in foreign lands not in the orc tribe. Orcs of Golarion has the orcs from the Darklands treat orcs with even a trace of human blood as half-orcs--the notorious one drop rule. Even racism-free orcs may put so much weight on physical strength and size that any half-orc that tries to be anyone in orc society is likely to get beaten to death.

 

[TrippyHippy]

To you. In many game worlds, they're not at all the same thing. In many game worlds, a half-orc might be tolerated where an orc wouldn't.

Like I say, this is fantasy. But from source (Tolkien), Orcs was largely a catch all term for all sorts of related beings. People may have developed cultures from D&Ds reference to Half-Orcs as distinct in their own game worlds. Frankly, though, I’ve never seen much evidence of this. In pretty much every game I’ve ever seen the Half Orcs are played as loners, but otherwise basically the same thing as Orcs in play.

In many cultures that rape a subculture all the time, the children end up in the subculture of the mother, not the father. If we have male orcs raping humans, the children are much more likely to be considered "human" by the orcs instead of "orc". Slaves remain slaves, humans raped in foreign lands have their children in foreign lands not in the orc tribe.

So why don’t we see Half-Orcs brought up in Elven, Dwarven and Halfling cultures too?

 

[prosfilaes]

In pretty much every game I’ve ever seen the Half Orcs are played as loners, but otherwise basically the same thing as Orcs in play.

In what setting have you seen orcs walk around in human settlements? In D&D books, having half-orc characters in human settlements is fairly common; full orc, very rare.

I can't speak to your games, but just because something doesn't stand out to you, doesn't mean that it's not a factor in the backstory, or even that other players wouldn't find it an important feature of the campaign setting. There are lots of little details going on in a campaign world that some players may never see.

So why don’t we see Half-Orcs brought up in Elven, Dwarven and Halfling cultures too?

Because it's long standing D&D tradition that only humans can cross-breed with other races. Except in Dark Sun, there are no half-dwarves at all.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

I think it's interesting that so many replies in this thread have been along the lines of "It's an old tradition" or "It's like that and it's the way it's always been." I guess I didn't realize how much some D&D fans liked things the way they are, to the extant that even questioning the statu quo may be seen as an aggression. Be sure that that wasn't my intent at all.

 

[prosfilaes]

I guess I didn't realize how much some D&D fans liked things the way they are

Really. The fact that D&D players are playing the oldest RPG wasn't a clue to that? I see nothing wrong with replacing half-orcs with orcs in home games. But D&D 5 is a response in part to D&D 4, and the way many people aggressively rejected that game. The 4e PHB not having the standard races and classes was a contributing factor for many people. So when they came up with D&D 5, to reunite all the D&D players, they aren't going to make a minor change that doesn't make a whole lot of difference that's going to annoy people.

There are any number of cases in reality where making minor improvements that aren't compatible is somewhere between ill-advised and massively, incredibly stupid. This may fall towards the first end of the range, but still.

 

[Minigiant]

I think it's interesting that so many replies in this thread have been along the lines of "It's an old tradition" or "It's like that and it's the way it's always been." I guess I didn't realize how much some D&D fans liked things the way they are, to the extant that even questioning the statu quo may be seen as an aggression. Be sure that that wasn't my intent at all.

I don't think it's that "D&D fans liked things the way they are" and more "why bother". For years Orcs were "unplayable evil crazies". Then we were gifted with Half Orcs as "playable Diet Orc". So the choice at this point was to either:

1) Create a excuse for why Orcs are still unplayable
2) Make Orcs playable and create an excuse why Half Orcs still exist as a playable race

Most people choose option 1 because it is easier, most official settings use it, and it has more creative opportunities "Orcs hear voices and are all nuts" vs "Orcs are um... stronger and dumber than Half Orcs".

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Really. The fact that D&D players are playing the oldest RPG wasn't a clue to that?

Oh well, I'm probably naive. I've been playing D&D for the last 30 years and I've never been among people who had such a strong emotional connection to stuff they considered to be part of "tradition". I'm not judging, but it's a surprise for me. Most gamers I know consider rulebooks to be not much more than a series of suggestions.

I don't think it's that "D&D fans liked things the way they are" and more "why bother".

I think it's a little bit of both, but you're making a strong case for the latter.

 

[thalmin]

Thinking about the 5e PHB and how it’s trying to be as inclusive as possible to gamers of past edition, I’ve been wondering if it’s always the best idea.

One example that springs to mind is the Half-Orc race. Apart from tradition, is there any reason to play Half-Orcs instead of Orcs? Orcs already are savage human-like creatures who live in the wild and are feared by civilized people, so what exactly is the difference between them and Half-Orcs? Is it because players would like to play Worf?

I can understand Half-Elves, because some people really want to play Elrond, but wouldn’t it be simpler and more elegant not to have all these hybrid races running around? What’s wrong with Orcs?

(Was Worf a half-Klingon?)
Anyway, since we have had half-orcs since 1E, many people expected them.
Many people see some difference between orc and half-orc, some more subtle than others. In my upcoming campaign both (also goblins and hobgoblins) will be playable races, possibly including several orc-something combinations, and other mixed race combos.

As for why the PHB did not include orcs as a player race, probably to stress the idea that it is up to the DM to allow them if they fit the campaign. It is always easier for the DM to allow something that is not expected than to disallow something that is expected. I hope and half expect the DMG to include some rules or guidelines for monster races as PCs. I would have preferred a couple PHB races had been also reserved for the DMG, but I understand their inclusion.

BTW, to answer your question "What's wrong with Orcs?" Too much gristle, and no amount of ketchup or hot sauce can make them palatable.