Orcus of Necromancer Games says "You were right, I was wrong"

[Votan]

Keep in mind I did state, this screws over a sorceror/cleric party.

Clerics generally IME don't memorize Air Walk and for many a sorceror, FLY is not one of their known spells.

I consider FLY a sure thing only by level 13. Level 9 is certainly too low IME to expect actual flight. (AS ana side, I'm pretty sure those other things like Spider Climb and levitate are open to 4e wizards as well)

I think it depends on subtile things like whether there is a massive time pressure or not. After all, if you need to be able to transportation magic but have a day before it is critical, a cleric could prepare Air Walk to overcome the challenge.

There really is not an equivalent 4E option.

It's also another place where the games differ. In a 9th level party for 3.5E, I have to consider that teleport MIGHT be available and this will make some types of challenges much less attractive (especially given how much less lethal 3E teleport is than A&D).

 

[Remathilis]

Keep in mind I did state, this screws over a sorceror/cleric party.

Clerics generally IME don't memorize Air Walk and for many a sorceror, FLY is not one of their known spells.

I consider FLY a sure thing only by level 13. Level 9 is certainly too low IME to expect actual flight. (AS ana side, I'm pretty sure those other things like Spider Climb and levitate are open to 4e wizards as well)

I think it depends on subtile things like whether there is a massive time pressure or not. After all, if you need to be able to transportation magic but have a day before it is critical, a cleric could prepare Air Walk to overcome the challenge.

There really is not an equivalent 4E option.

It's also another place where the games differ. In a 9th level party for 3.5E, I have to consider that teleport MIGHT be available and this will make some types of challenges much less attractive (especially given how much less lethal 3E teleport is than A&D).

The module in question (

Spoiler

Dread Crypt of Srhioz

, if people are keeping score) has a room that is a giant crossroad minus the road: just four open halls all leading to an bottomless pit. Its not necessary to cross the pit; but it does open up more areas of the dungeon to explore. Since the PCs are under no time pressure to complete the Crypt (well, any meaningful time pressure, the sealed gate barring the door isn't a barrier to egress for any serious 9th level party) a cleric/druid can memorize air-walk no problem on the first rest the group takes.

But as Votan pointed out, the OPTION for the cleric to rest and gain access to those spells; in 4e you either have the right utility power/ritual, or you don't. Its got its own advantages in disadvantages, I guess. And this doesn't take into account magic items that could help (flying carpet, cloak of the bat, even a scroll or potion of a flight spell. Remember casters; scribe scroll is your FRIEND!)

For the record; the dungeon also features a fight with an aquatic monster IN the water. By the same logic, this combat screws over sorcerers and clerics because most clerics don't memorize freedom of movement and most sorcerers don't bother to learn water breathing.

 

[AllisterH]

I would actually say it DOES screwover a party that has a sorceror as its main spellcaster.

Waterbreathing is one of those "You have it? Good, proceed. No? Go back and get it" scenarios unless the scenario allows for the PCs to bypass or somehow avid going into the water.

 

[Henry]

I would actually say it DOES screwover a party that has a sorceror as its main spellcaster.

Waterbreathing is one of those "You have it? Good, proceed. No? Go back and get it" scenarios unless the scenario allows for the PCs to bypass or somehow avid going into the water.

Waterbreathing is also one of those spells that, were I playing a sorcerer, I would make sure I had on scroll by that point in my career. If the DM doesn't allow magic items easily, or if the DM is running a lower-money campaign than default, I would also expect the DM to take this into account when he's running the adventure, and make sure it's not an "automatic lose" if you don't have that one spell as a sorcerer because he can't get his hands on it.

 

[Dark Mistress]

I await my Savage Coast with bated breath.

Dark Vistas

0one games was putting out their Great City adventure stuff. There's a few other things.

Razor Coast actually

 

[Theodric the Obscure]

I am glad that these are at last seeing the light of day, but I still hope we see support for Pathfinder RPG out of NG.

 

[Grimstaff]

Razor Coast actually

And here I thought he had an oldie but goodie on the way from EBay or something:

 

[billd91]

I would actually say it DOES screwover a party that has a sorceror as its main spellcaster.

Waterbreathing is one of those "You have it? Good, proceed. No? Go back and get it" scenarios unless the scenario allows for the PCs to bypass or somehow avid going into the water.

If it's a whole adventure, like U3 for example, then I would expect the DM to have made provision for the adventure to be playable. If it's an encounter, even an important one, I wouldn't consider it party screwing at all. Just a bit more challenging. Note that there are still multiple ways to handle an aquatic monster in his element that don't involve the sorcerer casting a lot of spells.

Neutralizing one character or even two for an encounter isn't a party screwover.

 

[BryonD]

I would actually say it DOES screwover a party that has a sorceror as its main spellcaster.

I love it when the party is forced to think outside the box.

 

[Twowolves]

For the record; the dungeon also features a fight with an aquatic monster IN the water. By the same logic, this combat screws over sorcerers and clerics because most clerics don't memorize freedom of movement and most sorcerers don't bother to learn water breathing.

Most clerics dowhatnow?? Every cleric I've ever played or seen had Freedom of Movement memorized, and most had it on a scroll/in a wand/in a ring of spell storing ASAP. I'd tend to agree about Sorcerors and Water Breathing, but that's what scrolls and potions are for!