Oriental Adventures Balanced?

[e3_Jeb]

I'm sure this has come up before, but I'm relatively new here and haven't seen it come outside of my group.

I purchased the book because I saw some cool ideas, classes, (a few monsters), etc. and then when I brought it to the table I was dismayed to see what seems to be a ridiculously over power group of classes and magical attributes. Our group may be misinterpreting the information in the book or I may have missed an Errata, but if someone would be so kind as to explain how the Shaman class balances with the rest of the classes in the PHB that would be fantastic. Thank you much

 

[EricNoah]

Well maybe you could start by telling us what feature(s) of the class seem out of whack to you. Also give us an idea of what core D&D class you're kind of looking to compare it to in terms of power.

 

[Gez]

One of the balance of these spellcasting classes is in their spell list. They suck. Compare, just for laughing a bit, a spell like animate fire and, say, a spell like summon monster 3 used to summon a small Fire elemental. Roughly the same effect, save that:

• SM3 may summons a wide variety of other creatures;
• Including several creatures if you want;
• SM3 don't have a cumbersome material component (you have to have a large fire nearby for AF);
• Your creature summoned through SM3 may be placed anywhere, while the fire animated start where the material component is;
• A Small Animated Object, even with the Burn ability and immunity to fire, is puny compared to a Small Fire Elemental.

And for starters, SM3 isn't a terribly powerful spell...

And this is just an example -- you can take several others. Look at scales of the lizard and compare it to shield or mage armor, for example. Its only redeeming feature is that it may stack with them both. Or look at fire eyes, to get another example of useless spell.

In short, the only powerful and frequently useful spells they have are those they share with the cleric, druid, or wizard...

 

[e3_Jeb]

Alright then. Well the Shaman seems to have the combined power of many core classes with no real draw backs.

The Shaman has:

Unarmed Strike
an Animal Companion
Cleric Domains (3 eventually)
A full divine spell selection (I think I may be kinda wrong on this)
Bonus Feats
Gets his charisma modifier to all saves
And can see ethereal creatures

These are all class abilities, the shaman also has a nice BAB and a better hit die than arcane casters.

Overall it seems to posses the best things from the Druid class and the Cleric class. Along with a few extra perks without having anything to I guess seem balanced.

Please show me the error of my ways (Seriously I'd like to have a good arguement to use this book in game). Once again thank you much.

 

[Gez]

As I said, compare the power level of the shaman's spells with the cleric's or the druid's ones.

 

[Psion]

Alright then. Well the Shaman seems to have the combined power of many core classes with no real draw backs.

The Shaman has:

Unarmed Strike
an Animal Companion
Cleric Domains (3 eventually)
A full divine spell selection (I think I may be kinda wrong on this)
Bonus Feats
Gets his charisma modifier to all saves
And can see ethereal creatures

These are all class abilities, the shaman also has a nice BAB and a better hit die than arcane casters.

Is its spell list as powerful as the sorcerer/wizard's? I really don't think so.

Further:

An unarmed strike? No, not really. It gets bonus martial arts feat, but unlike the monk, does not automatically get lethal damage and a progressing damage dice. It's not a huge benefit, and if you waste it trying to make the shaman into a psuedo-monk, you aren't getting much mileage out of it. Try deflect arrows or something.

Also, the shaman does not have the armor selection of the cleric, and while it has some druid abilities, it lacks the most powerful druid ability: wild shape.

 

[psionotic]

The Shaman is far weaker than the cleric, in my mind. Much smaller, weaker spell list. D6 for hit points. Turns undead two levels lower. Only one good save. Those 4 things alone more than make up for their other abilities.

Its funny that your group is trying to nerf the Shaman. Mine has been talking about how to make them more equal to cleric..! What we've essentially decided is to allow them to optionally forgo the Unarmed Strike and martials feat chain in exchange for another feat chain from the PHB or OA. (with DM approval, of course)

Even with this change, the cleric is more versatile, is a better combatant, and is more survivable than the Shaman ever will be.

 

[e3_Jeb]

Ok then thank you all much... My group seems to think that it's quite unbalanced but I'll bring this new information to them at our next session. I guess I kinda imagined a character that could simultaneously play many of your average party's roles. But you have shown me what the flaws are, I may have been able to see the balance if I'd had the opportunity to play test the character. Ok thank you, if anyone feels like making further comments on how to utilize OA in a regular D&D campaign they will be graciously accepted.

 

[Michael Tree]

As I said, compare the power level of the shaman's spells with the cleric's or the druid's ones.

Specifically, they have virtually no directly offensive spells, far less than clerics, let alone druids or wizards, and also have fewer buffing spells. Shamans don't have Divine Favor, Greater Magic Weapon, or Divine Power, the cornerstones of the cleric's buffing arsenal. Don't be fooled by the martial arts feats, shamans are much weaker in combat than clerics.

In short, shamans are essentially clerics that trades off a lot of offensive power for some neat abilities that are mostly defensive in nature.

 

[Felon]

Having a hodgepodge of other classes' abilities doesn't make a class powerful. Notice the d6 hit die, the lower armor proficiency, and the single good saving throw. Heck, I wish the cleric was only this broken.

Now, those Vanara guys? They are a bit bogus with that +2 Int and Wis for -2 Str.