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OSR/older D&D and XP from gold - is there a "proper" alternative?

I think I have an acceptable solution.

The system I'm looking at (GLOG - rat on a stick edition) - proposes 1 xp per gp, and 200 xp to reach level 2.

So what I would do is that I would give XP per session, based on the rate of leveling up I want to see (say, 5 sessions) so 40 XP. A session where not much was done would have less XP - and a dead PC gets no XP, of course. There would be small bonus given in game for good role playing or great ideas.

I would *also* give XP for gold but at a reduced rate - say 10 or 20% of the 1 per 1 rate. This would still motivate the PCs to go get the treasure, but it wouldn't have such a big influence anymore. It seems best of both worlds.
Sounds workable, you still have to scale treasure to the exp progression table, though.

Here's a thought: You could give exp for the challenges overcome/avoided (monsters, traps, puzzles), and for the /percentage/ of possible treasure recovered. (I know: gamist.)

So if the only treasure in the dungeon is a copper bowl worth 5 gp, and the party leaves with it intanct, full treasure XP. If the treasure is a 12-ton dragon horde and they only get away with 1 ton of it, 8.33% of the possible treasure XP. Thus the XP can be pegged to level while the treasure is pegged to the campaign norms and/or story.
 

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pemerton

Legend
I thought the point of playing OSR systems is to have the classic D&D experience - and XP foe gold is pretty central to that.

Otherwise, why not play DW?
 

Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
I thought the point of playing OSR systems is to have the classic D&D experience - and XP foe gold is pretty central to that.

Otherwise, why not play DW?

What is DW?

Dragon Warriors?

I'm essentially trying to get the benefit of the gold for XP by having some XP for gold but not it being solely that.
 

Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
Sounds workable, you still have to scale treasure to the exp progression table, though.

I hope that by having only a portion of the XP be gold related that I will have more slack/flexibility/room for error.

[/quote]Here's a thought: You could give exp for the challenges overcome/avoided (monsters, traps, puzzles), and for the /percentage/ of possible treasure recovered. (I know: gamist.)

So if the only treasure in the dungeon is a copper bowl worth 5 gp, and the party leaves with it intanct, full treasure XP. If the treasure is a 12-ton dragon horde and they only get away with 1 ton of it, 8.33% of the possible treasure XP. Thus the XP can be pegged to level while the treasure is pegged to the campaign norms and/or story.[/QUOTE]

It's a bit more complicated than what I had in mind but it would work.
 


Les Moore

Explorer
Sooo, let me be the Devil's Advocate, here. You are adventuring along, and you happen across Smaug's hoard of treasure, in his absence.Under strictest
"GP for XP" rules, this treasure trove would drive you and your 3rd or 4th level party well over the 20th level, and by virtue of finding his stash,
when Smaug showed up, breathing fire, you and Thorin would suddenly be powerful enough to easily defeat him?
 

Mordorandor

Villager
Hello

....

one of the (to me) striking elements is that you don't get XP for killing monsters, but from gold. The logic is that your characters aren't going in the dungeon (or other adventurish things) to kill monsters - they are going in there to get treasure.

....

buuuuut

I'm kind of bothered by gold as the source of XP, because it too can distort the game!

....

And what you learn from an adventure isn't just about the reward.

It can also lead to logic-defying situation.

....

This isn't right.

....

thanks,

You made such a number of interesting points and claims, I can’t begin to express all my thoughts.

As many have noted, how you decide to reward players determines the style of play. Early war gamers were eager to build armies and kingdoms. They needed money.

Also, referees were eager for people to explore their dungeons. And gold became a proxy: “did we find all the gold?” “I don’t know, maybe there’s more dungeon to explore.” “Yeah, we didn’t take those stairs down on level 2 because it smelled like Troll down there.” “You smelled Troll, I smelled Gold!”

And finally, it enables a referee a semi-objective way to measure player-learning. Such as when an astute player realizes she should take the not-so-nice looking pewter, hand made urn dedicated to Morgoth the Mighty, to find it’s a +5 mug of drinking for Giants. Or worth 10,000 go. Etc. thus the cursed items. Are you astute to take the right items, and it not, wise enough to be cautious enough?

It definitely encourages and rewards a type of play.
 

reelo

Adventurer
Sooo, let me be the Devil's Advocate, here. You are adventuring along, and you happen across Smaug's hoard of treasure, in his absence.Under strictest
"GP for XP" rules, this treasure trove would drive you and your 3rd or 4th level party well over the 20th level, and by virtue of finding his stash,
when Smaug showed up, breathing fire, you and Thorin would suddenly be powerful enough to easily defeat him?
Nope. The rule is you need to haul the gold safely back to civilisation. You get the XP when you put it into a "virtual bank account".
It's a bit like "milestone levelling": with XP for kills you don't level up in the middle of a fight with a big baddie, just after you downed a henchman (even if that kill would push you over the threshold), you level up after the fight during downtime.
 
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Mordorandor

Villager
Nope. The rule is you need to haul the gold safely back to civilisation. You get the XP when you put it into a "virtual bank account".

And the value is based on the difficulty of the challenge. Haul all that gold out, and it will not be worth 1 xp to 1 gp. The ratio changes.
 

reelo

Adventurer
And the value is based on the difficulty of the challenge. Haul all that gold out, and it will not be worth 1 xp to 1 gp. The ratio changes.
Not the way I see it. 1 gold = 1 XP. It's just that you don't find much gold lying around in unchallenging places. Dragons DO guard their hoard, and if they don't guard it personally 100% of the time, they make sure there are other effective intrusion and theft countermeasures they can rely upon. No party of beginners will blindly stumble upon an unguarded dragonhoard just waiting to be hauled off.
 

Mordorandor

Villager
Not the way I see it. 1 gold = 1 XP. It's just that you don't find much gold lying around in unchallenging places. Dragons DO guard their hoard, and if they don't guard it personally 100% of the time, they make sure there are other effective intrusion and theft countermeasures they can rely upon. No party of beginners will blindly stumble upon an unguarded dragonhoard just waiting to be hauled off.

Agreed.

I use the ratio approach to adjust. 10 party levels against 10 HD monster, 1=1. 20 kobolds against one 10th level Wizard, 1=1. 20 party levels against one 5 HD monster, 25% of XP value, based on the 1=1. They might find 10,000 gp on that line 5 HD monster, yet the XP would be 2,500 if they get it out of the dungeon.
 

Les Moore

Explorer
Nope. The rule is you need to haul the gold safely back to civilisation. You get the XP when you put it into a "virtual bank account".
It's a bit like "milestone levelling": with XP for kills you don't level up in the middle of a fight with a big baddie, just after you downed a henchman (even if that kill would push you over the threshold), you level up after the fight during downtime.

I should have stated the premise better. They find the treasure, haul it all back, and then, by virtue of this massive windfall, are propelled into stratospheric
levels, due to GP/XP? You're avoiding the meat and potatoes of the question by hedging on a technicality.
 

Mordorandor

Villager
OSR/older D&D and XP from gold - is there a "proper" alternative?

I should have stated the premise better. They find the treasure, haul it all back, and then, by virtue of this massive windfall, are propelled into stratospheric
levels, due to GP/XP? You're avoiding the meat and potatoes of the question by hedging on a technicality.

Generally, no more than 1 level earned per adventure, regardless of XP potential. DM discretion on where the cut off is. B/X notes earn a level and go up to x,999, just before second level. Another adventure needed to push one into the next level.

If the PCs want to “feed” off the hoard for a while, leaving it in the dungeon, going back to get some to level up, then let the fun and hilarity ensue!
 

reelo

Adventurer
I should have stated the premise better. They find the treasure, haul it all back, and then, by virtue of this massive windfall, are propelled into stratospheric
levels, due to GP/XP? You're avoiding the meat and potatoes of the question by hedging on a technicality.
Good luck hauling a substantial part back to town (back and forth) before the big lizard notices and goes after you...
 

Les Moore

Explorer
I would have to agree upon 1 level up per adventure. In this event, due to access to almost unlimited wealth, a PC could improve his lot
to the next level on affordability of premium equipment, alone. No more cheap hemp, low grade heavy armor, and bog-iron grade swords.

And granted that dragon is going to want his treasure back, so the smart play, IMO, would be to purloin small quantities, and attempt to hide
the theft, in this particular instance.

But let's get past the dragon, say it sees treasure missing, goes into a rage, gets ready to unleash a fiery retribution, and forgets, in his anger, to open his mouth, and his head explodes. Now the PCs play the given crawl to closure. The real question pertains to the massive haul, let's just argue
the party manages to rent a couple carts from a farmer, conceals the haul with hay, and drags two huge wagonloads of gold from the hoard back to the bank without anybody noticing. They now have a ridiculous amount of gold in the bank. What then, for GP/XP?
 
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Mordorandor

Villager
OSR/older D&D and XP from gold - is there a "proper" alternative?

I’ve always viewed “gold as XP” as the MacGuffin in D&D that drives the story. Obviously, alternatives can be made. What I like about gold is the “limited resources” part of the equation. There’s only so much we can carry, do we sacrifice movement for more, etc.
 

Mordorandor

Villager
OSR/older D&D and XP from gold - is there a "proper" alternative?

...
They now have a ridiculous amount of gold in the bank. What then, for GP/XP?

That 1 gp bread now costs you 6,000 gp.

Oh, and yet another young kid is outside waiting to challenge you to a gunfight.
 

Les Moore

Explorer
My point is I've found players are adept at "playing the system", and while GP/XP may be a reasonable general guide, in many instances,
IMO it should not be a set standard.
 

Mordorandor

Villager
My point is I've found players are adept at "playing the system", and while GP/XP may be a reasonable general guide, in many instances,
IMO it should not be a set standard.

Agreed. Players can play the system. I had a group one time that was so out to “play it and flaunt it,” I simply said, look, as the referee, I too can game the system.

“Innumerable specters appear out of nowhere. Your group is surprised.” Bunch of rolls. “You each lose 10 levels. Oh, you were only 2nd level? Hm. Well, that’s not a fun game. See?”

I had to dig a bit deeper to understand what it was they were really after.
 

pemerton

Legend
From Gygax's DMG, p 85:

If the relative value of the monster(s) or guardian device fought equals or exceeds that of the party which took the treasure, experience is awarded on a 1 for 1 basis. If the guardian(s) was relatively weaker, award experience on a 5 g.p. to 4 x.P., 3 to 2, 2 to 1, 3 to 1, or even 4 or more to 1 basis according to the relative strengths. For example, if a 10th level magic-user takes 1,000 g.p. from 10 kobolds, the relative strengths are about 20 to 1 in favor of the magic-user. (Such strength comparisons are subjective and must be based upon the degree of challenge the Dungeon Master had the monster(s) pose the treasure taker.)​

And from the PHB, p 106:

Experience points awarded for treasure gained - monetary or magical - are modified downward if the guardian of the treasure (whether a monster, device, or obstacle, such as a secret door or maze) was generally weaker than the character who overcame it. A 4th level character versus a single orc is an overmatch, and only about 10% of the treasure value gained could count towards experience points; but if nine or ten orcs were involved, the experience points awarded would generally be on the one for one basis.​
 

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