[OT] Claim of first clone birth

[KnowTheToe]

[RANT]
I am beginning to think there should be laws against lawyers.


[/RANT]

You are just beginning to think this.

As mentioned dozens of times earlier. I don't think cloning humans is immoral, just not yet safe to do. What right do scientists have to play with the humans when they have so little knowledge or experience doing it. I mean cloning is still new, the FDA takes longer to approve drugs than "scientists" took to jump to cloning humans for personal glory. I can't wish personal harm to these scientists, but I would not cry if it happened

 

[tleilaxu]

the bene tleilax are pleased. just wait till you get a load of our 2005 model.

 

[tleilaxu]

Re: Re: Hmm...

It's really disturbing to me how many people "worry" about cloning who don't seem to really UNDERSTAND it. It's nothing to be fretting about, other than the 'squick factor' which accompanies any new technology.

wrong wrong wrong.

there are plenty of things to worry about. on one end of the spectrum are the luddites who fear the new, on the other end are people like you who are dismissive about any worries. 50 years ago you'd tell us people are worried about nuclear power just because its new.

now lets kiss and make up

 

[tleilaxu]

But you have to think about it: The Geneva Conventions did not come about until AFTER World War I. U.S. Federal regulations affecting the Stock Markets did not come about until AFTER 1929. Mankind always has to learn the one horrendous lesson, before checks and balances are put into place.

this is bad logic. what about all the catastrophes we avoided by preparing beforehand? they don't exist edit: because our preparations prevented them. it is easier to point out the "woops" moments than to point out the hundreds of times we avoided ______________________

 

[tleilaxu]

So, if I had a huge amount of money to invest in an immortality project, I'd stop wasting my time with clones and start with brain/machine interfaces. Followed by artificial bodies. I'm pretty sure this could be done with enough research, time and money. They'd eventually be as good as biological ones (or better). When that works good enough, try to find a way to dump a mind into a computer. I'm not sure that can reasonably be done, but hey I would have said the same about going to the Moon if I lived in the last century. If that works, woo-hoo, just make backups and barring unimaginable catastrophes I could theorically watch the Sun explode eventually (from a safe distance, mind ya). And no ethical problems involved.

Consider a CD. Assume the copper (or whatever) in a CD degrades over 20 years. So, looking to keep up me CD collection, I burn my CDs onto new CDs, thereby prolonging the life of the CD. When those CDs are on the verge of wearing out, I burn them again, prolonging the life of the CD indefinitely (even harddrives experience decay over time).

Here's why you don't become immortal. You are still the first CD. It doesn't matter if there is a copy of you somewhere else. You are still screwed. There was a great Sci-Fi story called "Think like a dinosaur". I forget who it was by. In the story people could travel faster than light by projecting a string of data to recreate their body. However, in order to maintain "harmony" the old body (which was still alive, just like the original CD) had to be destroyed.

So, in short, I'll skip on your solution.

 

[Airwolf]

I can't wish personal harm to these scientists, but I would not cry if it happened

I would hope you don't wish harm on the scientists.

I would be sad if harm did come to researchers in this area.

I am not morally opposed to cloning. I do think that any scientist needs to consider the ethics of the experiments that are being done. I also think that laws and supervision are needed in areas like this. Researchers can't work in a vacuum when working with the human life.

Human cloning experiments now will lead to amazing discoveries in the future. I also know they can lead to horrific ones if we are not careful.

The 'playing God' argument holds no water with me. We, as humans, have been trying to 'play God' for a long long time now.


Regards,
Airwolf

 

[tleilaxu]

The 'playing God' argument holds no water with me. We, as humans, have been trying to 'play God' for a long long time now.


Regards,
Airwolf

i think when people say "playing god" they often don't literally mean diety but instead are trying to say that while humans are clever enough to have the capability to do something, they don't necessarily have the widddom to use it in a good way...

edit: widddom=wisdom

 

[Voadam]

The implications of cloning - covered for decades and decades in science fiction - have a sinister connotation that can't be glossed over. That is, since organs from a clone would be a genetic match, and therefore less likely to be rejected if transplanted, will there be extremely wealthy people who would be willing to take the long-term approach and have clones made of themselves which they can later harvest for organs? Will there be folk who will want to have their minds transplanted (once such a thing is possible, which I very much doubt will be in our lifetimes - but I could be wrong) into a cloned body, to replace their own sick or aging one? I'd say yes on both counts. There are plenty of hard-hearted, self-centered folk in the world. Hashing it out now, before the technology is able to accomodate such things, seems like a good idea to me. The technology isn't gonna wait on us to deal with it ethically.

All of these are settled issues already, it would not be legal or ethical to keep a clone prisoner for their entire life and to take their organs or body when you need them.

Are you seriously suggesting we not develop transplant technologies because rich unethical people might illegally harvest organs to save themselves?

 

[diaglo]

Human genome project.

IVF.

stem cell research.

science does a lot with manipulation of the basis of life.

is it playing god?

that is for the community to decide.

 

[Moulin Rogue]

never mind.