[OT, grammar and punctuation] Use of commas in US and British style?

[gregweller]

It's interesting to find this discussion here, as this subject has turned up IRL for me as well. My wife is currently taking a freshman writing course and, since I taught Freshman English for five years, she makes sure I go over everything she writes with a fine-toothed comb before she turns it in. What I've tried to impress on her is not to get paranoid over comma placement. If it sounds correct when spoken, using commas as pauses, then it's probably okay. I find that usually the ear picks up the right sense of the words.

As an example look at the phrase above: 'I go over everything she writes with a fine-toothed comb' ...now obviously I wasn't implying that she uses a fine-toothed comb to write. If you put a comma in there--'I go over everything she writes, with a fine-toothed comb' -- it doesn't really do anything to the sound of it.

What a fascinating thread, and no one has tried to make the connection between poor punctuation and vileness.!

 

[RangerWickett]

What about this one: using apostrophes for words that end in "s"?

This is the prince's horse. That is the princess' horse. Those are the dukes' horses. Out of them all, Marcus' horse is the best.

or

This is the prince's horse. That is the princess's horse. Those are the dukes' horses. Out of them all, Marcus's horse is the best.

So, if the word is singular, and ends in s, do you just add an apostrophe, or do you go apostrophe and then another s?

I used to prefer "s's", but now I'm kinda lazy, and I think people can figure out whether the word is singular or plural on their own.

By the way, I use punctuation outside quotations if the punctuation isn't part of the quotation.

Did Mary say, "I like to dance in the moonlight"?

 

[omedon]

Um, "ubiquitous"? (Note the punctuation OUTSIDE the quote)

You mean the nature of the relationship was everywhere at once?

Or perhaps you mean "unclear".

Sorry, it made me laugh...

Actually, I meant to write "ambiguous".

I see now that it was a bad example (even at the time I wrote it I felt that it was lacking). I knew that there were situations where omitting the comma before an "and" could lead to confusion, I just couldn't think of any at the time.

The example that brak1 gave is better and funnier than my own example. Though I am glad you got a laugh out of my post barsoomcore; even if I didn't intend it.

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Originally posted by brak1

The activities include a search for lost treasure, dubious financial dealings, much discussion of ancient heresies and midnight orgies.

vs

The activities include a search for lost treasure, dubious financial dealings, much discussion of ancient heresies, and midnight orgies.

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[barsoomcore]

Actually, I meant to write "ambiguous".

THAT'S the word. I knew there was a word, sounded like ubiquitous, meant unclear, couldn't think of it. Ambiguous. Of course.

The example that brak1 gave is better and funnier than my own example.

Don't feel bad. Who can compete with midnight orgies?

 

[Bran Blackbyrd]

Eh. Minor variations in pronunciation are usually just regional dialect, and no more significant than the New England habbit of adding 'r' sounds where my midwestern US-trained ears think they shouldn't be (at the end of 'idea', for example) and removing them from where they should be (at the end of 'car', for example).

As long as someone's not blatantly violating the rules of spelling and grammar, it's not a big deal.

This wasn't minor variation or a local dialect (it's Ohio for crying out loud), it was pure idiocy. As a teacher she had more responsibility than perhaps anyone else to speak properly. Instead she preferred to teach the next generation her mistakes.
I think that's a big deal, but maybe that's just me. I do, after all, irritate easily.

And irregardless is an actual word, it's just one that means the same thing as regardless. English isn't French; it's defined by usage, not some committee in Washington or London.

So our answer to people who can't use the language properly is to integrate their mistakes? Personally speaking, I think that's a load of garbage.

I'm not trying to be inflammatory, honestly.

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Mondegreens have always been one of my pet peeves in English. Particularly phrases like, "For all intents and purposes," which I have seen consistently phrased on these boards as "For all intensive purposes" time and time again.

I just schooled my best friend on this exact thing a few weeks ago.
He's studying to be a teacher...

Another one on my list?
Should of instead of should've or should have
Ditto with would and could in the appropriate places.
I stunk in grammar class, so I really see no excuse for someone being worse at it than yours truly.

 

[Trevalon Moonleirion]

originally posted by Jack Daniel

I go by what the Modern Language Association says. MLA's formal expository style dictates that Tom, Dick, and Harry are okay but Moe, Larry and Curly are using improper grammar.

That's exactly what all of my teachers have told me to do where I'm from. MLA is our best friend supposedly.

 

[Morrus]

Who on earth are the Modern Lnaguage Association, and, more importantly, why do we care what they say?

 

[Morrus]

Originally posted by Henry
Mondegreens have always been one of my pet peeves in English. Particularly phrases like, "For all intents and purposes," which I have seen consistently phrased on these boards as "For all intensive purposes" time and time again.

You are kdding, right? I've never seen anyone do that, but if I did, I'd probably spew my drink all over the keyboard and remain giggling incoherently for the rest of the day...

 

[tarchon]

This wasn't minor variation or a local dialect (it's Ohio for crying out loud), it was pure idiocy. As a teacher she had more responsibility than perhaps anyone else to speak properly. Instead she preferred to teach the next generation her mistakes.
I think that's a big deal, but maybe that's just me. I do, after all, irritate easily.

I'm from Ohio too. It has dialects .

The problem with your idea is the question of who decides what constitutes proper speech. Is it proper just because you think it's proper? This is my pet peeve, people who insist that "that's the way I was taught" or "that's the way I speak" is equivalent to the Immutably Absolutely Perfect Form of the Language. No two people speak or write exactly the same way or will ever. Even individual speakers drift in their usage (idiolect) over time and from context to context. There is no absolute standard for every niggling little point of usage nor can there ever be such a standard.
BTW, pronouncing the first syllable of "Thylakoid" similarly to Midland "thah" is indeed a regional variant which wouldn't be unusual in southern Ohio, especially the rural areas. It is after all the most common reflex of long-I just across the river. And if you think you don't have a few "nuculars" hanging around in your own idiolect, I think you're deluding yourself.

 

[Bran Blackbyrd]

*Sigh*

It's a pretty big leap from accent to mispronunciation.

In the case of the teacher I mentioned, it shows a clear misunderstanding of the actual spelling of the word. In my experience this usually comes from not looking at the word carefully enough before saying it. Hence why my father used to say cosmos when he was actually referring to our computer's cmos. It wasn't a dialect, it was lack of attention. I should know, he's from Kentucky and he has an accent, but that's not the same thing as what I was speaking of in my former posts. You see, he hadn't even seen the word until the 1990's.


Although switching pacific with specific seems to me like a childhood thing she never outgrew, like a 4 year old saying 'pasghetti' instead of spaghetti.