[OT] Hero System Fifth Ed Review

Greatwyrm said:
Can anybody tell me how Fantasy Hero stacks up against D&D like the Champions vs. Gurps discussion above?

Well first off, Fantasy HERO is a bit like GURPS Space: whether or not you like the system, it makes a lovely genre bible and useful tool for the game.

As I alluded to in my last post, the complexity of the power system throws some players off, and even as a GM the burden of classifying things in FH can get to be a bit much. However, at least in Hero you have a system for handling and describing everything. There is no wondering what abilities you should give your prestige class and deciding whether or not you overdid it. Everything is neatly defined.
 

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I must say after reading all these comments I'm almost interested in getting Hero 5th. How much does it cost? Granted my current financial situation doesn't really allow me to get it, but I'll keep my eye on it.

I tried Champions about 10 years ago. Picked it up at a comic book convention. I had trouble really getting my head around it. However since then I've had lots of time and am thinking of giving it a chance again. I'm always on the look for something to play supers with.
 

Psychotic Dreamer said:
I must say after reading all these comments I'm almost interested in getting Hero 5th. How much does it cost? Granted my current financial situation doesn't really allow me to get it, but I'll keep my eye on it.

I tried Champions about 10 years ago. Picked it up at a comic book convention. I had trouble really getting my head around it. However since then I've had lots of time and am thinking of giving it a chance again. I'm always on the look for something to play supers with.

5th ed. costs $40.00. It is _rougly_ equivalent of the scope of rules found DMG and PHB although that is a loose comparison.

A Beastiary is due out soon. The Champions Genre book is slated for Gen Con, I believe, followed by Star Hero, Ninja Hero.

Again, get on the discussion boards or ask your FLGS for a Legionnaire to come and give you a demo. It is much easier to learn by doing with HERO.
 

Greatwyrm said:
Can anybody tell me how Fantasy Hero stacks up against D&D like the Champions vs. Gurps discussion above?

Hm, here goes:
  • Hero System is the most complex system for character creation. You can do (more or less) whatever you want, but you pay for that by having to figure the point costs yourself. :) 3E has the easiest character creation, and GURPS falls between the two.
  • Hero System combat is, IMO, about as complex as 3E combat. The rules are different, of course, so at first it will be slower, but once you get the hang of it it should be about the same.
  • Hero System combat does run a lot slower than 3E combat; in my experience, you could get one big fight or 2-3 small fights per session.
  • The flexibility of the system cannot be underestimated. It's the closest thing to a complete meta-system I've ever seen. If you want to build a spell (for example) that damages people by having large spiders erupt out of their skin and start biting them, no problem.
  • There are no levels; a starting character could (if you wanted) have the equivalent of 20 ranks in a skill. Experienced characters don't necessarily have any more "hit points" than starting characters.
  • The largest drawback for Hero is it's lack of "common ground": spells, monsters, campaign worlds, etc. With 3E, you can start a game knowing that everyone is familiar with Fireballs, dragons, Decks of Many Things, etc. You don't get that in Hero; you have to make it yourself.
  • By default, Hero fantasy is deadlier than 3E: there's hit location, and hit points are more realistic, so death is always a possibility. It would be easy to make a campaign more like a supers game, where people tend to be knocked out before being killed, just by setting ground rules for what defenses people should have.
  • Because Hero is flexible, the GM has to stay alert during character creation to make sure the characters fit with what he wants for his campaign. It's easy to make inappropriate characters, and only a bit less easy to make inappropriate characters that look appropriate at first glance. :) In 3E, most of the balance issues are handled for you: you just have to decide what optional feats/classes/spells/etc. you want to allow.

I love the Hero System. I have run many fantasy campaigns using it (and BTW, you can run one just fine with the main rulebook only; Fantasy Hero is nice, but there are no rules that you need from it, as long as they still put the weapon list in the main book) and plan to do so in the future. The main reason I switched to 3E for my current campaign is that I moved to a place where there are few Hero players. :(

I've run the following genres with Hero: supers (four-color and "gritty"), western/Highlander crossover, fantasy, modern-day psi, Running Man-style arena combat, and space.

IMO, if you have a completely homegrown world (custom magic system and all), Hero is the best system to use. If you are looking to run a sourcebook-based campaign, it might not be your best bet.
 


Galfridus said:


I've run the following genres with Hero: supers (four-color and "gritty"), western/Highlander crossover, fantasy, modern-day psi, Running Man-style arena combat, and space.


I agree with all the above. To illustrate how flexible the system is, thought I'd list all the campaigns I've run using Hero:

4-color superhero
"Dark" superhero
"Psi" game
Wild West game set in Abilene
A manga-style game - near-future - sf/horror
A superhero Civil War game
Alien invasion game
Espionage/superspy
Eastern fantasy ( a la Rokugan)
Western fantasy

I've played in:

Champions, of course
Middle Earth game
Celtic Fantasy
etc.
 

Re: D&D vs. Hero

Greatwyrm said:
Thanks for all the feedback on D&D and Hero. This may be something I want to look more into.

Greatwyrm, I'd be happy to answer any other questions you have either on this thread or by email (like if you get the book and have detailed "how does this work?" type questions).

Ah, I still remember the Worldcon where I picked up 4th Edition...spent most of the con reading it. :)
 

Greatwyrm said:
Can anybody tell me how Fantasy Hero stacks up against D&D like the Champions vs. Gurps discussion above?


Well, first off the game systems are as different as night and day. D&D allows you to pick a class, or classes, and advance from Geek to God. Hero, on the other hand, lets you simulate anything. There are no class restrictions, only the restrictions imposed by the GM. I have characters in my FH game that have started out as demi-gods. Someone above mentioned that characters start out around 8 th level. That’s fairly close to accurate. I’d say somewhere between 6th and 8th.

D&D combat revolves around Armor Class keeping you from getting hit. FH combat uses armor to subtract from the damage taken when you are hit. In Fh the players must decide what combat maneuvers they are going to do. Instead of just hoping they are missed the players can choose to Block, Disarm, Dodge, Strike, etc. You just don’t run up and swing when your phase comes around. It's possible to be knocked out in FH without ever taking an severe damage. FH can use hit locations (a shot to the head has a good chance of killing you, no matter how powerful you are), and keeps the players "honest".

The flexibility is the main issue. If you want to begin as a swordmaster, you can. You don't have to evolve into a swordmaster. If you want to be a mage that fights with a sword and wears armor, you can. FH is great for simulating characters that you read about in books. I've had players that started the game as demi-gods (ala Heracles), enchanted heroes (ala Achilles), or just simple barbarian warriors that started off as a thief (ala Conan). I once ran a game where fantasy heroes from across the timeline were brought together by Merlin to save the world. Imagine having Lancelot, Conan, Heracles, Cu Chulainn, Raiko and Beowulf all playing in your game. :)

The magic system is the major issue that the GM needs to make decisions on. The game allows you to simulate any type of magic system that you want. You could do the "Will and the Word" from the Belgariad. You could do the "Elemental Style" of the Wheel of Time. You can simulate "Book and Study" from D&D. You can easily simulate any type of magic that you have ever read in any book. Once the magic system is determined, it’s fairly easy to make spells from there.

Character creation is the most complex issue. In D&D you roll the dice 6 times, decide what class and race you want to be based on the highest characteristic, roll hit points and pick equipment. In FH, you create the character from scratch. Do decide how strong or how agile the character is. You decide what his personality and problems are at the beginning. You decide how hard he is to kill and how good he is in combat. All of these decisions are based off of points that you get to spend.

In FH, the concept is not: “Oh well, the character died. I’ll just roll up another one if 5 minutes”. It can take a long time for you to decide what you want the character to be, so you don’t really think of them as expendable assets. You don’t want to sit down to play your Conan clone, and then stick his head in a dragon’s mouth. In the Hero System games, the characters become more personal because you get to make them the way you want them.

There are currently two game worlds for FH. Broken Kingdoms is a pdf that you can buy from Hero Games. It’s very well fleshed out but not might be to everyone’s tastes. There’s also a more “standard” world called Western Shores in the back of the 4 th edition FH book. It’s a very basic breakdown, but uses traditional D&D style races and such. Personally, I’ve spent most of my FH gaming career playing in either Greyhawk, the Forgotten Realms, or my homebrew world. It’s fairly easy to use any game world. There are numerous websites that GreyHero, RealmsHero and D&D to Hero spell conversions. So it’s really not that hard to make the switch.

I’m in sort of a rush, so I hope what I typed above makes some sense. :)
 

Psychotic Dreamer said:
I must say after reading all these comments I'm almost interested in getting Hero 5th. How much does it cost? Granted my current financial situation doesn't really allow me to get it, but I'll keep my eye on it.

I tried Champions about 10 years ago. Picked it up at a comic book convention. I had trouble really getting my head around it. However since then I've had lots of time and am thinking of giving it a chance again. I'm always on the look for something to play supers with.

At my store it's 33.95 plus 5.95 for US shipping! :D
www.taloncomics.com/herogames.html

~Derek
 


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