[ot] Mars colonization
- Thread starter tleilaxu
- Start date
Xeriar
First Post
It's a pun.
There was once a really really REALLY bad movie called Mars Needs Women, there's some info:
http://www.reelcriticism.com/ziggyrealm/reviews/marsneedswomen.html
It gets joked about so much it's like a little part of American culture, even though most haven't seen it, many have heard the phrase.
There was once a really really REALLY bad movie called Mars Needs Women, there's some info:
http://www.reelcriticism.com/ziggyrealm/reviews/marsneedswomen.html
It gets joked about so much it's like a little part of American culture, even though most haven't seen it, many have heard the phrase.
If you want a Scientists views of why the moon is a much better place to start the "colonization" of space.
Read Space Travel, by Ben Bova ( it is mostly full of scientific facts about space, the planets, space travel, and how these things can be applied to hard science fiction.
But he gives a number of reasons why the moon is favorable to mars for colonization.
While even I would love to live in a Mars out of Blue, or Even Green Mars (K.S. Robertson) It will probably never happen
To Terraform Mars one needs to thicken its atmosphere first
Give it a godly amount of nitrogen (incidently taken from the outer planetoids, such as Titon) It will need to be artifically bombarded with Ice Meteoroids, and will have to have some form of fission to heat the planets polar caps which in and of itself can lead to more Carbon Dioxide since great portions of its caps are believed to be dry ice. If one can accomplish these things ( an act of god) the Solar heating that is given off by the sun is actually quite close to what the earth gets.
Another problem is the lack of plate tectonics (The Tharsis Bulge, of which Olympus Mons is the Highest is most likely the end result of a Catacalysmic asteroid strike that blew off most of the planets atmosphere, and sent a shock wave through the planet that created the Tharsis Bulge, the Vallas Marineras, and the the Hellas Basin ( A crater 1,200 miles across in diameter, and 2 miles deep)
On Earth of course plate tectonics help to heat the planet. So that is one source of heat that is missing from the smaller world.
Its magnetosphere is almost non existant due to the frozen core of the world (Another fact that is unfixable at this modern date) Mars is simply unterraformable.
Again one should look on Titan for a place to practice this fantasy of human engineering.
Unfortunetly one can not leave out politics when dealing with the future of space, Indeed one is hard pressed to not bring even its outer fringes into the subject. What we (Terrans) need is an Internation Space Agency ( not leaving out my opinion that any exploration by man into the unknown of space will by necessaty be funded by Corporate money.) Something much like the UN for space.
Ok enough splurting about mars, and space agencies
Again back to the moon
Both the Heat, and the Radiation troubles that were mentioned can be taken care of by just a few feet of local material the lunar surface is bombarded by radiation, Though when Neil Armstrong set his foot in the lunar regolith, his foot print left a much brighter mark than that of the area around it. This brightness is the true color of the lunar dust since there is but the weakest of atmospheres on the moon (made up of escaping gasses and incoming solar winds) no force is put on the surface regolith other than the thousands upon thousands of years of solar radiation.
The Colony on the moon by necessaty will be underground. It will most likely start as a mining colony ( see below for what we'll mine) and over time (as with any frontier town) will grow into a lunar industrial complex.
The lunar surface holds 50% of its make up in oxygen about as much as that of the Earth, though there are no Hydrates. The top layers are home to hydrocarbons, silica, hydrogen, nitrogen, carbon dioxides, sulfur, and iron ore. In fact what little we know of the make up of the Moon we've learned from its surface (we actually know very little about the interior of the moon.) Pit mines mined by sealed dozers, or by suited dozer operators will be the name of the early mining that goes on the moon.
There is the posibilty of solar energy farming, and even the slight chance that there is water ice in the south pole where the surface is in constant shadow.
I will not repeat the ideas of the industry that I stated earlier, though I will say this taking things from the moon, and setting things back down requires only a slight exit velocity compaired to even that of trying to mine mars. ( which does have some good resources, other than the fact that the majority of its surface is Iron Oxide ( Rust)
Any hoot enough for now back to the fantasy world
The moon only has rocks and what you bring with you.
Storminator
Actually the lunar rocks you refer to should be called regolith ( as rock implies that there might be Hydrates)
And you are quite inherently wrong, the moon as I have said is made up of many different things its "rocks" are a mineral gold mine, and though it might not make since to your Mars enamoured minds the moon is our first great step into the wilds of space, just as Lewis & Clark was Americas first offical step into the wilds of the west. It will also be our first Sutter's Mill, Our First Frontier town, and our first major Colony. ( IMNSHO).
To get really technical.
The moon is roughly 50% Oxygen though the good portion of this is Anhydros , or lacking in compounds containing water molecules.
The following is the rough composition of the Moon
Si02 = 43 %
Fe0 = 16%
AL03 = 13%
CaO = 12%
MgO = 8%
TiO2=7%
Other = 1%
Si= Silicon O= Oxygen Fe=Iron AL= Aluminum Ca = Calcium Mg =Magnesium Ti=Titanium
In additon particles of Hydrogen and Helium from the solar wind are imbeded in the lunar regolith, The Hydrogen can be vital, literaly. Combined with the lunar oxygen it can create water.
The isotope called helium-3 can be the key to safe abundant energy through the process of nuclear fusion .
If there is enough of this resource on the moon then the fuel for fusion power on the earth may be supplied by the mining on the moon ( also these are good reasons for the Asteroid mining that will eventually take place.)
Profit is not the only reason to got to the moon.
Undoubtably scientific studies will still go on amongst the bustle of the lunar industries. These may include
1. the study of the origin of the Solar System
2. Astronomical observations of the sun, the planets, and the stars
3. Physics of the Sun/Earth/Moon and there interactions
4. Particle Physics
5. Chemical & Pharmaceutical Research
Also the Moon is a good place for the weak hearted the moon one day be a good geriatrics home ( The stress of gravity will be lessened for those with weaker hearts)
Some links to support my cause
Sid
Taken from NASA
http://lifesci3.arc.nasa.gov/SpaceSettlement/75SummerStudy/Chapt6.html
Lunar Mining (From the NASA Site)
http://search.spacelink.nasa.gov/r....holars.jsc.nasa.gov/HAS/Cirr/Em/l8/Mining.htm
Another Lunar (Moon Base Alpha) colony article from NASA
http://aerospacescholars.jsc.nasa.gov/HAS/Cirr/Em/l8/Alpha.htm
[edit: just a note to say that my tired mind has mispelled, and misgrammered quite a bit in these posts, and to say sorry for it. ]
Armchair Planetologist signing out
Read Space Travel, by Ben Bova ( it is mostly full of scientific facts about space, the planets, space travel, and how these things can be applied to hard science fiction.
But he gives a number of reasons why the moon is favorable to mars for colonization.
While even I would love to live in a Mars out of Blue, or Even Green Mars (K.S. Robertson) It will probably never happen
To Terraform Mars one needs to thicken its atmosphere first
Give it a godly amount of nitrogen (incidently taken from the outer planetoids, such as Titon) It will need to be artifically bombarded with Ice Meteoroids, and will have to have some form of fission to heat the planets polar caps which in and of itself can lead to more Carbon Dioxide since great portions of its caps are believed to be dry ice. If one can accomplish these things ( an act of god) the Solar heating that is given off by the sun is actually quite close to what the earth gets.
Another problem is the lack of plate tectonics (The Tharsis Bulge, of which Olympus Mons is the Highest is most likely the end result of a Catacalysmic asteroid strike that blew off most of the planets atmosphere, and sent a shock wave through the planet that created the Tharsis Bulge, the Vallas Marineras, and the the Hellas Basin ( A crater 1,200 miles across in diameter, and 2 miles deep)
On Earth of course plate tectonics help to heat the planet. So that is one source of heat that is missing from the smaller world.
Its magnetosphere is almost non existant due to the frozen core of the world (Another fact that is unfixable at this modern date) Mars is simply unterraformable.
Again one should look on Titan for a place to practice this fantasy of human engineering.
Unfortunetly one can not leave out politics when dealing with the future of space, Indeed one is hard pressed to not bring even its outer fringes into the subject. What we (Terrans) need is an Internation Space Agency ( not leaving out my opinion that any exploration by man into the unknown of space will by necessaty be funded by Corporate money.) Something much like the UN for space.
Ok enough splurting about mars, and space agencies
Again back to the moon
Both the Heat, and the Radiation troubles that were mentioned can be taken care of by just a few feet of local material the lunar surface is bombarded by radiation, Though when Neil Armstrong set his foot in the lunar regolith, his foot print left a much brighter mark than that of the area around it. This brightness is the true color of the lunar dust since there is but the weakest of atmospheres on the moon (made up of escaping gasses and incoming solar winds) no force is put on the surface regolith other than the thousands upon thousands of years of solar radiation.
The Colony on the moon by necessaty will be underground. It will most likely start as a mining colony ( see below for what we'll mine) and over time (as with any frontier town) will grow into a lunar industrial complex.
The lunar surface holds 50% of its make up in oxygen about as much as that of the Earth, though there are no Hydrates. The top layers are home to hydrocarbons, silica, hydrogen, nitrogen, carbon dioxides, sulfur, and iron ore. In fact what little we know of the make up of the Moon we've learned from its surface (we actually know very little about the interior of the moon.) Pit mines mined by sealed dozers, or by suited dozer operators will be the name of the early mining that goes on the moon.
There is the posibilty of solar energy farming, and even the slight chance that there is water ice in the south pole where the surface is in constant shadow.
I will not repeat the ideas of the industry that I stated earlier, though I will say this taking things from the moon, and setting things back down requires only a slight exit velocity compaired to even that of trying to mine mars. ( which does have some good resources, other than the fact that the majority of its surface is Iron Oxide ( Rust)
Any hoot enough for now back to the fantasy world
The moon only has rocks and what you bring with you.
Storminator
Actually the lunar rocks you refer to should be called regolith ( as rock implies that there might be Hydrates)
And you are quite inherently wrong, the moon as I have said is made up of many different things its "rocks" are a mineral gold mine, and though it might not make since to your Mars enamoured minds the moon is our first great step into the wilds of space, just as Lewis & Clark was Americas first offical step into the wilds of the west. It will also be our first Sutter's Mill, Our First Frontier town, and our first major Colony. ( IMNSHO).
To get really technical.
The moon is roughly 50% Oxygen though the good portion of this is Anhydros , or lacking in compounds containing water molecules.
The following is the rough composition of the Moon
Si02 = 43 %
Fe0 = 16%
AL03 = 13%
CaO = 12%
MgO = 8%
TiO2=7%
Other = 1%
Si= Silicon O= Oxygen Fe=Iron AL= Aluminum Ca = Calcium Mg =Magnesium Ti=Titanium
In additon particles of Hydrogen and Helium from the solar wind are imbeded in the lunar regolith, The Hydrogen can be vital, literaly. Combined with the lunar oxygen it can create water.
The isotope called helium-3 can be the key to safe abundant energy through the process of nuclear fusion .
If there is enough of this resource on the moon then the fuel for fusion power on the earth may be supplied by the mining on the moon ( also these are good reasons for the Asteroid mining that will eventually take place.)
Profit is not the only reason to got to the moon.
Undoubtably scientific studies will still go on amongst the bustle of the lunar industries. These may include
1. the study of the origin of the Solar System
2. Astronomical observations of the sun, the planets, and the stars
3. Physics of the Sun/Earth/Moon and there interactions
4. Particle Physics
5. Chemical & Pharmaceutical Research
Also the Moon is a good place for the weak hearted the moon one day be a good geriatrics home ( The stress of gravity will be lessened for those with weaker hearts)
Some links to support my cause
Sid
Taken from NASA
http://lifesci3.arc.nasa.gov/SpaceSettlement/75SummerStudy/Chapt6.html
Lunar Mining (From the NASA Site)
http://search.spacelink.nasa.gov/r....holars.jsc.nasa.gov/HAS/Cirr/Em/l8/Mining.htm
Another Lunar (Moon Base Alpha) colony article from NASA
http://aerospacescholars.jsc.nasa.gov/HAS/Cirr/Em/l8/Alpha.htm
[edit: just a note to say that my tired mind has mispelled, and misgrammered quite a bit in these posts, and to say sorry for it. ]
Armchair Planetologist signing out
Last edited:
Storminator
First Post
Mistwell said:
Zubrin's book is devoted to a method he calls Mars Direct. The idea is to dispense with docking station idea completely. The docking station is the really expensive part.
Most of the plans to get men to Mars require very large space ships, which must be built in orbit, because we don't have rockets large enough to get the whole thing into space at once. Why do these plans need such big ships? Because they bring everything it takes to get back from Mars as well, including fuel for the return rockets. Mars Direct is much more like the Apollo missions to the moon. It uses Saturn V rockets and throws them straight to Mars, no intervening steps.
The idea is you send a return rocket and a robot manufacturing plant that processes fuel out of the Martian atmosphere first. This is unmanned. Once the fuel is made, you throw a second rocket with people in it. Cheap, no new tech, easy, repeatable. I think it's a pretty slick plan.
And the book's a pretty good read.
PS
Wulf Ratbane
Adventurer
We'll get there when we get there.
In the meantime Earth is doing just fine, and I haven't even seen most of the beautiful places our own planet has to offer.
I'd concentrate my efforts first on human longevity. With that solved, we'll have the time and inclination to turn towards more altruistic and purely inquisitive pursuits.
Wulf
In the meantime Earth is doing just fine, and I haven't even seen most of the beautiful places our own planet has to offer.
I'd concentrate my efforts first on human longevity. With that solved, we'll have the time and inclination to turn towards more altruistic and purely inquisitive pursuits.
Wulf
Wulf Ratbane
Adventurer
tleilaxu said:
That's kind of my point.
That social revolution is an important first step to any kind of serious evolution of the human condition. It is far more important and impactful than an attempt to colonize or terraform another planet.
Irrefutable proof of intelligent alien life would rank a close second.
The bottom line is, we just don't have any reason to go to Mars or beyond. Mars is a big ball of rust and outer space is... mostly empty space.
Wulf
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