[OT] Medieval Special Ops

[S'mon]

Except that the word "assassin" comes from a monotheist (Islamic) culture where, dishonourable or not, assassination was a potent political tool.

Most muslims would consider use of assassination by muslims against other muslims to be dishonorable - in fact Islam has stronger prohibitions against internecine warfare than Christianity does, hence the need for non-muslim slave troops like the mamelukes. Assassination of Christian crusaders by muslim assassins is another matter of course.

 

[mmadsen]

Most muslims would consider use of assassination by muslims against other muslims to be dishonorable...

I don't doubt that, but it doesn't change the fact that the assassin cult was a radical Islamic cult that terrorized other Muslims.

But, please, I don't want to turn this into a religio-politico-thread. My point is simply that monotheism plays little role in suppressing terrorism and/or "special ops".

 

[S'mon]

But, please, I don't want to turn this into a religio-politico-thread. My point is simply that monotheism plays little role in suppressing terrorism and/or "special ops".

Okay then:

"Medieval notions of chivalry tended to suppress terrorism and/or special ops".

Is that better?

 

[hong]

I can imagine spies conducting acts of edpionage, which I'm sure had happened back then in the courts but a 'MI6,' 'Delta Force,' or 'Green Beret' equivalent seems like a stretch. The closest thing my mind can equate it to are elite military units, say, like knights or reknowned archers/infantry, but nothing of a behind the enemy lines type.

In _The Silmarillion_, after the armies of Morgoth had defeated the elves and men in the field in the Dagor Bragollach, many of the surivors turned to a life of banditry (= "irregular warfare", if you want to call it that). Beren was one such outlaw, in a group led by his father, Barahir. Of course, being good guys, they only raided the encampments of the orcs and other bad guys.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I guess I have no problem with "commando" or "special ops" or other modern terms and concepts being used in regards to D&D. This is because I don't see D&D as being a reflection of Medieval Europe. Sure, I know that many have this perception, but I honestly never thought of it that way, until years after I started playing. I always had a vague notion that the world of D&D would be quite modern in a number of ways, due to the presence of magic. For example, I just don't see feudalism and chivalry surviving intact, as we know them in history, in a world where spellcasters would really have power. At the least, magocracies and theocracies would become as prominent as feudalism, and the effecst on a society where magic was fairly commomplace would be profound, most likely resulting in a form of government and society far different than that found in medieval western Europe. In my own take on it, things would be quite modern in a political sense in such a world, because a long tradition of magic (that actually works, just to be clear) would end up providing many with access to items and services analogous, in a sense, to what we find in modern society (long range communication, labor saving devices, etc.). The equivalent of the late 19th century technology-wise (except tech is magic), and a spectrum of poltical practices, from feudalism (in some areas) to modern republics and democracies.

Sorry for the ramble.

 

[hong]

In my own take on it, things would be quite modern in a political sense in such a world, because a long tradition of magic (that actually works, just to be clear) would end up providing many with access to items and services analogous, in a sense, to what we find in modern society (long range communication, labor saving devices, etc.).

cf Hong's First Law: "Any sufficiently commonplace magic is indistinguishable from technology".

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Exactly my point. Too often, I believe, people ignore just how pervasive and common magic would be in any given D&D campaign world, and how much of an impact it would have. The more low-magic you go, the more like medieval Europe D&D becomes.

 

[SableWyvern]

Reconnaisance and counter-espionage were probably the most similar special-op to anything done today. Tsun Zu (sp?) for one takes great pains to stress the importance of intelligence and counter-intelligence.

 

[hong]

Exactly my point. Too often, I believe, people ignore just how pervasive and common magic would be in any given D&D campaign world, and how much of an impact it would have.

cf Hong's Third Law: "Thinking too hard about fantasy is bad".

Magic in D&D serves one purpose: to allow the recreation of the deeds of characters from legend, myth, and fantasy. It represents the ability of these characters to transcend human limitations. Thus a priest, shaman or witch can heal people by dint of her connection with the divine, or her enlightened nature, or whatever. A mage can blast foes with fireballs because he's tapped into the power of the elements, or his deal with a demon, or whatever.

There's a compromise here: on the one hand, you want to be able to play characters who can do things beyond what ordinary mortals can do; but you also don't want to have a world that's completely divorced from our everyday conception of the ordinary. A priest, shaman, wizard or sorcerer is still human, and the world they live in should reflect that. Thinking too hard about the consequences of breaking the laws of physics just makes it harder to reach a suitable compromise.

The more low-magic you go, the more like medieval Europe D&D becomes.

Perhaps that might be better phrased as "the more you're willing to gloss over the implications of magic, the more authentically fantastical D&D becomes".

 

[SHARK]

Greetings!

Azure:

Over 1800 years ago, in the first century AD, the Roman Empire fielded several special forces along the Northern Fronteir. These special operations forces were several groups of about 2000 men, all of whom were specially recruited from various regions of the empire. They were also selected for special skills in woodcraft, hand-to-hand fighting, and languages. These forces were highly skilled in operations against the germanic barbarians, of which many of these special soldiers were descendents. They operated deep behid the enemy lines in the dark forests, making raids, wiping out villages, gathering intelligence, and disrupting barbarian forces all along the frontier. These special forces were renowned for their courage and ferociousness. However, after several years of them operating with great success, rival generals, commanding more conventional Roman Legions, began to become ever jealous of the success and fame of these special forces. Through political influence, these special forces were gradually disbanded.

At different times, throughout the Roman Republic and also in the Byzantine Empire. special forces were raised, trained, equipped, and deployed for action throughout a variety of campaigns.

In Caesar's day, there were special groups of Peltasts--unnamed often, sometimes with unique signifiers or uniforms, sometimes not--who were regulalry deployed as special forces to go behind enemy lines--or, as it were, way out in front of your own--and harass, disrupt, and slaughter the enemy, before melting away into the wilderness before heavier forces could track them down.

In the Byzantine Empire, there were special squadrons of naval forces--ships, archers, and marines, that operated with specially trained and resourceful units of cavalry. They would frequently set sail for the barbarian-held coasts, make landings, and ride roughshod through the countryside burning and killing, before meeting at a predetermined coastline to rembark upon the fast sleek ships, and depart into the mist. The Byzantines became experts at such complex, combined operations, often operating with only a few thousand cavalry, for long periods behind enemy lines, and always outnumbered. Their lightning raids and superior skills set up the training, and confidence, for Byzantine arms to gradually reconquer much of the Western Roman Empire that was lost to the barbarians.

There are more that I could give. I hope these inspire you with some historical examples.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK