[OT] NFL Playoffs - predetermined?

[reapersaurus]

How could they decide who was going to win ahead of time and make it look real and keep it secret.

To note:
Because you can't figure out a way it might be implemented, than the NFL being fixed is an impossibility?

That's a self-fulfilling truism, again.

For everyone, here's just 1 potential scenario that only involves 1 person:

What if it is common knowledge in the NFL that the players are playing at the whim of management? (It is)
What if they know they are incredibly lucky (one in a million) to be able to play a game for incredible amounts of money and priveledge? (It is)
What if they are fully aware that a player may someday be required to run "special plays"? (not known)
Therefore, noone asks questions when they see _inexplicable actions_ by professional players, and no reporters ask the players to explain their actions.

It takes one man - Dwayne Washington - to choose to "rough the kicker" after the ball was FAR gone (again, there was no way he could have possibly been in the play from where he lines up, OTHER than to participate in a "roughing the kicker" insurance play.)

It does take an entire industry to not ask questions.
A "gentlemanly agreement", with the future of The Sport in mind.

Until the common man stops assuming that it's impossible, than no sane journalist with a press pass will start asking those questions.

 

[Crothian]

I think one would need prroof before voicing these accusations publically. Dwayne mihgt have lined up wide, but no wider then people line up in other games. There was nothing about that play to make one think it was rigged if you take the play and view it alone ignoring the fact it's a playoff game and decided the game. I think if we had tape of all the games this season we could find a few dozen instances of people lining up in a way near how he did.

 

[Celebrim]

reapersaurus: This is not a flippant question. It is I think very germane to the issue you are raising in several ways.

Where you ever on a football team?

Beyond that line of inquiry, you've done nothing to address the problems with conspiracy that I raised nor any of the problems with this particular conspiracy jdavis raised. That hypothetically it is possible to have a perfect conspiracy that never fails further than having one person on a BBS questioning whether a game was fixed does not mean that such a conspiracy exists. In fact, a little thought should show that it is highly unlikely that such a conspiracy exists. In order for the conspiracy to work, everyone involved must believe in it, while in order for it to break down only one person must reject it or become disgruntled. And the more elaborate you make the conspiracy, the more probable that such a thing is impossible.

If the game was rigged, the most probable explanation is not some sort of far reaching conspiracy, but that one person paid one player to throw the game for simple economic reasons - like a bet. But you've not even provided any reason to believe that. So one mediocre player having problems all season makes inexplicable big mistakes in the big game? Please, like we haven't seen highly consistant skilled players, blow up and inexplicably do stupid things in football games both big and small.

For one thing a massive conspiracy raises the question of why rig certain games and not others? Why rig the Pitt/TN game to be a nail biter won by the Titans (assuming you could do such a thing by paying just a few players to throw a few players), and rig the SF/Bucs game to be won in a blowout by the Bucs? Why so many one sided superbowls? Why so many bad playoff games? Why so many blow outs? Why allow good markets like Detroit to have such bad teams? Why take such a big risk when the return on the investment is so small?

 

[Valmur_Dwur]

All I have to say on this is I hope the Bucs are part of the Master plan I mean come on what better way to make more money than to have a side bet on whether Al Davis and Jon Gruden get into a death cage match to decide it all

 

[Dr. NRG]

For everyone, here's just 1 potential scenario that only involves 1 person:

What if it is common knowledge in the NFL that the players are playing at the whim of management? (It is)
What if they know they are incredibly lucky (one in a million) to be able to play a game for incredible amounts of money and priveledge? (It is)
What if they are fully aware that a player may someday be required to run "special plays"? (not known)
Therefore, noone asks questions when they see _inexplicable actions_ by professional players, and no reporters ask the players to explain their actions.

QUOTE]

As long as there are former NFL players practically starving in the streets (and there are), there will never be a conspiracy like this. They would have too much to gain in revealing the truth. Many journalists would pay big money to be the first ones to break a legitimate (or even illegitimate) story about fixing NFL games. That's the kind of scoop that makes careers.

What if they play the games to see how they turn out, and sometimes, just sometimes, humans act unpredictably, or even stupidly? (they do)

The people who make the NFL go (mostly bookies of various sorts) would never allow a significant widespread fix to be implemented in the NFL. It would simply ruin a business that rakes in more money than any player or owner ever will.

Just my opinion,

NRG

 

[Gizzard]

This discussion reminds me of the Simpsons episode where Bart wears a tinfoil hat and covers his room in coat hangers so that "The Major League Baseball satellite cant read my thoughts." ;-)

One of the beauties of a nutty conspiracy theory is that its practically impossible to disprove. Still, I've gotta ask:

If the NFL wants to jack Pittsburg then why did they allow that crazy timeout one one-billionth of a second before Nedney kicks his first successful field goal? Just pretend you cant see the time-out, sorta like they did on the third kick. It seems infinitely complex to disallow the first, simple, winning field goal and then resort to "Secret Plan B" where some poor schmoe has to run up and bump Nedney in the butt just in case he gets freaked out and misses.

And further, if the game were fixed, would Nedney ever miss that kick? I bet he kicks like 50 of those straight in practice when there is no pressure.

 

[JohnBrown]

Reapersaurus,

For the fix to be in on the Tennessee Game, then it must have been planned from the beginning of the season. I say that because the Steelers played that game the same way they did all season. This year at least, the Blitzburg defense was nowhere to be found. The humiliating losses to New England and Oakland at the beginning of the year exposed their weak secondary. While they remained good at stopping the run (85.9 yards per game), the Steelers couldn’t stop the pass all year long (213.6 yards per game). Their record shows this.

The only blowout wins they had this year were against Cincinnati (34-7), Indy (28-10), Baltimore (31-18), and Carolina (30-14). With the exception of Indy, we aren’t exactly talking powerhouse offenses here…

All of their other wins were shootouts, or at least close games: Cleveland (23-20), Atlanta 34-34 (OT tie), Cincinnati (29-21), Jacksonville (25-23), Tampa Bay (17-7), and Baltimore (34-31).

Their losses were all defensive breakdowns: New England (14-30), Oakland (17-30), New Orleans (29-32 OT), Tennessee (23-31), and Houston (6-24).

Compare that to traditional Pittsburgh records of seasons past, and it becomes pretty clear that, this year at least, the Steelers relied on their offense pretty heavily.

So, in the last game of the season they find themselves in a shootout and lose because of defensive breakdowns in the 4th quarter and in overtime. Questionable call or not, I wouldn’t say that is not evidence of the game being fixed. I would say that it is simply further evidence that they have had a rather weak pass defense and a tendency to make defensive mistakes all season.

 

[Storminator]

Actually JB, the fix on this game has been years in the making. First they had to fix all the other Steeler games so people would think they had a good D...

Only one quibble with your analysis: Pittsburg defense destroyed Houston. In fact, they set the record for best defensive performance in a loss. 47 yards.

PS

 

[JohnBrown]

I stand corrected.

 

[Guilt Puppy]

That game was not fixed.

If the refs were in on the fix, they would not have allowed the time-out that deprived Tennessee of the win immediately beforehand (which would have also raised fewer eyebrows.)

If the refs were not in on the fix, it wasn't a very good fix. It relies solely on Washington roughing the kicker -- but people have already commented on how this was a bit of an odd call (you're certainly not guaranteed to get a foul called their in the play-offs or in over-time: In both situations, the refs get a bit more lax.)

For another, it also relies on Washington knowing that the kick wasn't good before he runs into Nedney. Could someone explain to me how exactly he knew that? Granted, it may not matter if the kick goes through, but charging still runs the "risk" of disrupting the successful kick -- not something you want to do if you're hoping the Titans will win! After all, even if the miss that kick, that doesn't guarantee Pittsburg a victory.

What I saw was Pittsburg fighting for the victory -- getting a little cheap about it (throwing time-outs around, roughing the kicker and hoping it wouldn't be called, et cetera), but when that's all you have left it's what you have to do -- and having it slip through their fingers, just barely. Like what happens when two good teams play against each other, and they both try real hard to win. Like what happens in football.

Trying to call that game fixed is just sad, and disrespectful. It's an insult to both teams, refusing to acknowledge the huge amount of effort put in on both sides.