[OT] What is Labor day? (for Plane Sailing)

[Sir Hawkeye]

Without venom, I ask, when did Washington or Jefferson ever "sit on the beach"

And more specifically, what great ideas did Washington ever have?

Please no flames, these are real questions.


g!

Not sit on the beach per se, necessarily, but as upper-class slave owners, they had a fair amount of free time, and they put it to good use: educating themselves, thinking, and debating philosophy.

Fortunately, Washington has been defended better than I could have done. I was merely trying to point out that historically, those with free time tend to produce the driving philosophies of the world. Enlightenment grows from Boredom, shall we say?

 

[Barendd Nobeard]

Hey now, there is a reason why consultants can get the rates that they get - and it is called results and timing.

The bottom line is do you pay 1 salaried person to do a job that takes 6 months or an expensive consultant that does it in 2-3 months (and oh by the way has minimal overhead costs unlike the employee) - that is a buisness decision that an organization needs to make (and I agree that sometimes organizations do not always make the right one - but it is not my job to point this out - simply to give them a superior product on the agreed upon schedule).

I've known a lot of consultants in my day (and even been one in the past). But I gotta disagree with your statement that consultants are hired only because "results and timing." Such a broad characterization can't possibly be true.

Some consults do perform as advertised (by themselves or others).

But I have also seen many companies (big name, huge corporation with international reputations type companies) send in "consultants" who didn't know what they were doing. Who cleaned up their mess? Who did their own job, plus the consultant's job, and didn't see a dime of the $x0,000 spent? The employee(s).

Why, there's a consultant in my department right now. Doesn't do anything productive. Ruins databases. Wrecks servers. And it just got its contract renewed. I don't know who it is sleeping with or what dirt it has on management, but it sure as hell is not delivering results or timing. Last contract was renewed for $114,000. For doing nothing. Yeah, consultants deliver. Oh, did I mention that half the time this consultant is "on the clock" it is talking on its cell phone to other clients....while it's being paid to help us.

Oddly enough, whatever we say about consultants can also be said about the organization's employees. I've met my share of bad ones. You know--the programmer who hasn't written a single line of code in five years. But I've also met my share of good ones. Some of my best job skills, I've learned from consultants--but some of my best job skills I learned from other employees.

Some workers suck.
Some consultants suck.

Welcome to the world, 2002.

 

[jgbrowning]

ok guys,

what did you DO this labor day?

in all seriousness i bet you went out and enjoyed yourself somehow or you stayed at home and enjoyed yourself.

probably you enjoyed yourself by someone else's work. movies, dinner, television shows... etc..

not much of a day off for a lot of people.. mostlying those in the service industry. makes ya wonder...

joe b.

 

[Wicht]

Re: ok guys,

what did you DO this labor day?

I went shopping for gaming stuff and books for our homeschooling. Unfortunately, whilst Barnes and Noble was open, the two gaming stores I went to were both closed for the day

However, despite the lack of gaming shopping, it was an enjoyable day spent with the family at the bookstore.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

It's true that many more professionals get Labor Day off than those who might be better characterized as "laborers," which I'll admit is a bit of a travesty.

However, I will note that I enjoyed my Labor Day by hiking, cooking my own meals for a change, and reducing the chaos in my apartment, none of which involved making anybody else serve me on that particular day. Which was on purpose. And that, I think, is a good enough thing to have a holiday for.

 

[Utrecht]

Some workers suck.
Some consultants suck.

Oh there is no denying that - and your right generalizations are bad. but on the whole it is generally more economical to "rent" a consultant than to hire an employee to do the same job.

And yes I too have managed consultants from the firm that starts with Accentur....... and organizations seem more like a pyramid sceem than an actual busisness.....

 

[Renshai]

I'm with Dr. Rictus

Ren

 

[KnowTheToe]

I am so angry I missed out reading these as the day progressed.

I personally think FD suffers from a severe case of Americanism-itis. We Americans often seem to identify our net worth, self esteem and value on our positions. I am a hard working and successful individual. I put in extra hours in order to ensure my job is done right, but I was not born to work all day.

Companies would never have given insurance to employees, or paid holidays, or any other benefit if not for intervention from the gov't and special interest groups. Read about the industrial revolution and the work ethics of corporate America to see ample evidence of that or just read the paper any given day to see how big corps abuse power.

The gov't set up rules for the famiily leave act, I would like to see that extended by offering incentive to companies with liberal vacation policies. With the modern technologies available companies can survive offering 4 weeks vacation. Many other countries offer it and still thrive.

 

[Storminator]

The gov't set up rules for the famiily leave act, I would like to see that extended by offering incentive to companies with liberal vacation policies. With the modern technologies available companies can survive offering 4 weeks vacation. Many other countries offer it and still thrive. [/B]

Depends on what you mean by thrive. America's economy is pulling away from the rest of the world, that's just simple fact. There may very well be a point where a country is rich enough that it doesn't have to work harder. It's even possible some of the world's countries are already there. But in the mean time, America not only out produces all other nations, the gap is widening all the time.

That said, most places will let you take time off unpaid. It's paid vacation that's rare, and there's only so much America is willing to pay people to NOT work.

And incidentally, I stayed home on Labor Day and watched the kids while my wife put in a 14 hour day.

PS

 

[Wicht]

The gov't set up rules for the famiily leave act, I would like to see that extended by offering incentive to companies with liberal vacation policies. With the modern technologies available companies can survive offering 4 weeks vacation. Many other countries offer it and still thrive.

There is a reason we tiptoe around politics around here. We have a hefty sprinkling of us conservatives on the board and its really hard not to argue when things like this get posted. A few more posts like that and I predict the thread gets closed. This way lies only madness and a flame war.

Actually, I am a little surprised it ended up lasting this long.